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[Music]

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[Laughter]

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[Music]

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welcome back to another episode of

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liminal frames I'm Nathan and I'm joined

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by my friend and co-host Darren EXO

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academian this is the last show of 2022

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we hope that wherever you may be you're

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having a wonderful end of the year and

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looking forward to a happy and healthy

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2023. Darren uh as is often the case

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when you get to the end of a year you

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start looking back and taking stock of

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what happened in the last 12 months and

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and then also you look ahead to what

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might be coming down the road and I

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think we're going to do a little bit of

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that on this show it's going to be a

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little bit of a free form uh maybe more

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so than what we normally do but I think

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we're going to have a good time with it

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but uh how you been and um what are you

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looking forward to

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well I mean I've been good but it's been

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you know when I reflect on this year

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it's there's been more change this year

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this past year than almost any year in

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my life I think and there's been

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previous years where I've said that but

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I really think that's true this year

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almost nothing uh that was the case when

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the year began is the case anymore in a

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lot of ways um so that is kind of

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discombobulating to use a point of

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convergence favorite term

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um but at the same time I feel like I'm

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slowly getting more accustomed to

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um being familiar and comfortable with

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change you know I like this expression

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you know learning to become comfortable

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with uncomfortability

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um is is helpful and like I we talked

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about in uh the last episode you know

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when you can go through life without too

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much attachment to certain preferences

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uh you just reduce your own suffering so

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I feel like I'm slowly getting better at

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um just rolling out with when rolling

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with it when change happens so

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been a massively uh impacting year so

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many changes and I can't imagine the

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2023 will have quite the same but you

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know we'll see we'll see what happens

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but I'm definitely looking forward to it

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absolutely I I mean uh it's been a wild

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year for our show I want to say that

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um you know for folks who haven't been

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with us from the beginning

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um

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we kind of had some planning sessions

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about 12 months ago and started started

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the show in early 2022

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and um it's been an interesting Journey

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there not only with where the show has

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gone but I'm reflecting back too on this

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on the many many times that we have met

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in person and and what you've been

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sharing with me and

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um kind of plans that you had for the

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year that changed Direction

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um a couple of times it's um

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it's been it feels like we had class has

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been in session you know for for me

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anyway I've had to learn a lot I had to

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put a lot of things into practice I'm

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finding that the more that we talk about

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this uh topic the more that we get

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deeper into I think what really matters

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at the heart of this issue uh the more

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that confronts me with parts of my own

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life that I need to examine re-examine

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it reframes the way that I approach

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situations not only in the UFO Community

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but also just interpersonally and um you

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know I'm very grateful for that change

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it's not come without you know some

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level of discomfort uh there are

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definitely moments where I don't think I

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get it right or I have to you know kind

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of change direction but I have found

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that I at least for me personally I've

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got some new Tools in my toolkit to be

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able to approach things that are

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happening in the world and that has made

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me a better person so I'm grateful for

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that and I hope that's all our listeners

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have been able to kind of take away some

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things from our show that have

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deepened their relationship with this

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journey that have given them some new

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questions that have you know hopefully

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maybe catalyzed some conversation and

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started them on some new Journeys and I

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know we've got some some exciting

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Journeys ahead as well I mean they're

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they're inevitably going to be some

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I think some pretty big Revelations that

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are coming down the pipeline

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some of which we can speculate on in the

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show today some of which will probably

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be all surprised to hear I mean that

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will be a you know kind of a fun

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part of the the journey as well so um

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you know with all that being said I mean

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what's something that you might want to

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start with on our on our show today what

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would you like to kind of tackle maybe

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it's something we've talked about before

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but kind of revisiting

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well before we go there I just want to

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say in light of what you just shared

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that I think that's a really important

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point that we didn't design this show

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now the not that we really like spent

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you know months and months planning it

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but when we planned it I think we're

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both wired in such a way that we we just

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want to grow right like it's just a

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natural inclination and so what I would

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say to people is if you're you know

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if this is if this a different show is

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your cup of tea where it's kind of more

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like euphotainment and it's just sort of

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like you know the same stuff year after

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year after year I understand that can

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occupy people's time and kind of tickle

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their fancy but I think the way you and

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you and I are wired

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um is to grow and to take in information

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and try to do something with it like how

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does it change our perspective and the

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show is a natural

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um you know is the fruit of that in many

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ways so uh it's not like we plan hey

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halfway through the year let's go more

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spiritual you know something like that

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that's just kind of what happened uh

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because that's what what's going on in

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our lives so

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um that part's exciting because I would

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say that

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equally the case that we don't really

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know what 2023 is going to bring because

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uh we certainly couldn't have predicted

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2022

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um in terms of what we can begin on I

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think you know just before we went on

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the air we were talking about

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um

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b l uh on Theory of Everything Jeremy

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Corbell and George Knapp were talking uh

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just about some of the things coming

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down the pipeline and even though you

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know it's stuff that you and I and

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people you know intimately familiar with

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this topic have heard before uh I still

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think sometimes when you hear it with

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fresh ears and you just say you know if

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my if my you know Aunt heard this or my

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cousin or you know my co-worker heard

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this what would it do like that we're

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actually using these kind of words you

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know and and I'll get to in a minute but

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I was just thinking how George Knapp

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talked about uh breaking this story with

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um Bob Lazar back in the day right and

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how people just even within ufology

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thought it was crazy this notion that

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someone would be employed by the federal

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government or some branch of the

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military or some private contractor uh

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on contract with the military to try to

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figure out some off-planet vehicle that

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had been recovered right and yet that's

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exactly what's on the table and in the

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conversation today George Knapp talked

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about not only the idea of

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whistleblowers going before the

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Congressional committee and giving

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testimony but that already some of the

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shift in focus and some of the

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mechanisms have been put in place with

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the language and whatnot uh with the

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task force have allowed them to actually

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figure out where the hardware is is what

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Jeremy actually said that that they've

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actually not it's no longer just a

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hypothetical right that maybe somewhere

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in some deep you know facility somewhere

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but they're saying they've actually

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located it I assume they mean the

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Congressional members that are involved

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have actually received Intel about where

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some of this stuff is and then he went

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on to say also like you know there's a

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this expression we use you know where

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the bodies are hidden right and in this

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case it's literally like gray alien

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bodies or something like that or is it

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future humans you know these are the

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kind of questions we have uh that we can

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maybe sort of start there so what do you

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think

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yeah that's a that's a good jumping off

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point because uh in many respects

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you know we're talking about two

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figures there who have been responsible

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and in some large part

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to where we are now and and the

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the stories that they have told uh that

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in you know George with Bob Lazar and or

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Skinwalker Ranch and his many decades of

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reporting on this topic and Jeremy with

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his documentaries and you know kind of

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more of his activism

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you know that kind of allows us to

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revisit some of the

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core components of this issue right so I

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think it's it's it's a it's the on-ramp

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to for those who is I think of it this

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way right they're going to be people as

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there always are right I just remind

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myself of this too because I'm kind of

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so into this topic so often every day

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that I kind of forget that there are

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people coming on board

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every week like there are people who are

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coming new they're brand new to the

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topic they just stumbled across whatever

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and they're

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they can't they're insatiable they can't

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get enough and they're just they're

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starting with generally you know oh that

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you know maybe maybe these ETS are here

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maybe their craft have been here maybe

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Roswell was real you know they're

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starting with these things

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and so

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um remind myself that that's happening

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and that's gonna happen again you know

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if we get the kind of things that we're

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hearing from from George and Jeremy

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we're going to see that stuff come to

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fruition

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then we're gonna have a whole bunch of

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new folks that are going to be

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interested in this

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um in ways that that we haven't seen

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before

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um particularly if we can get some some

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hard juicy substantial reporting from

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Congress uh on their own interest and

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and traction with this topic so

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um you know for me I think it might be

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good to kind of take a look at what you

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know what were some of the core claims

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of early apology and

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um you know what what parts of the those

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claims do you hold to be still

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significantly true and meaningful now

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um and what ways and what are the ways

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in which you look at those kind of core

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claims differently than you may have

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looked at them from when you started on

275
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this journey

276
00:10:42,590 --> 00:10:40,200
um so you know one we could take a look

277
00:10:46,009 --> 00:10:42,600
at might just be you know they're here

278
00:10:49,069 --> 00:10:46,019
right so uh there was a purported crash

279
00:10:51,050 --> 00:10:49,079
that took place in the 40s the most

280
00:10:52,670 --> 00:10:51,060
notable being Roswell

281
00:10:55,550 --> 00:10:52,680
of course we've certainly heard of

282
00:10:58,910 --> 00:10:55,560
others that have predated that that

283
00:11:01,550 --> 00:10:58,920
there were bodies recovered and and the

284
00:11:03,949 --> 00:11:01,560
prevailing hypothesis was you know these

285
00:11:06,829 --> 00:11:03,959
were beings from another

286
00:11:09,170 --> 00:11:06,839
Planet not from Earth right

287
00:11:11,750 --> 00:11:09,180
um and the government squirreled away

288
00:11:13,130 --> 00:11:11,760
that material and those bodies and and

289
00:11:14,990 --> 00:11:13,140
have been studying it trying to figure

290
00:11:18,350 --> 00:11:15,000
out whatever it happens to be and also

291
00:11:21,949 --> 00:11:18,360
that spawned the conspiracy of secrecy

292
00:11:25,250 --> 00:11:21,959
right the uh that keeping a tight lid on

293
00:11:28,250 --> 00:11:25,260
this topic some have said more more

294
00:11:32,090 --> 00:11:28,260
secret than the bomb you know the h-bomb

295
00:11:34,430 --> 00:11:32,100
so uh we could start there and you know

296
00:11:35,810 --> 00:11:34,440
what do you think about that now and and

297
00:11:37,009 --> 00:11:35,820
what did you well let's start with what

298
00:11:39,889 --> 00:11:37,019
you thought about it you know initially

299
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:39,899
and what do you think about it now

300
00:11:44,690 --> 00:11:42,480
well it's interesting kind of turning

301
00:11:46,210 --> 00:11:44,700
the tables here because last time we

302
00:11:49,610 --> 00:11:46,220
talked about the difference between

303
00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:49,620
experiencer kind of concerns versus you

304
00:11:53,329 --> 00:11:51,600
know the general public and so we're

305
00:11:55,190 --> 00:11:53,339
kind of steering back towards the left

306
00:11:56,810 --> 00:11:55,200
here and saying let's talk about the

307
00:11:58,370 --> 00:11:56,820
public conversation and how that changed

308
00:11:59,569 --> 00:11:58,380
over time

309
00:12:03,290 --> 00:11:59,579
um

310
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:03,300
yeah so going back to the beginning

311
00:12:10,069 --> 00:12:06,720
I was reading a book by Stanton Friedman

312
00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:10,079
recently and just sort of retracing his

313
00:12:15,050 --> 00:12:12,480
steps in the 20th century you know

314
00:12:16,730 --> 00:12:15,060
trying to figure out what's going on

315
00:12:19,069 --> 00:12:16,740
um you know what kind of groups are

316
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:19,079
studying this

317
00:12:23,150 --> 00:12:21,600
is Majestic 12 a real thing things like

318
00:12:26,030 --> 00:12:23,160
that right and uh

319
00:12:27,410 --> 00:12:26,040
more recently uh James iandoli our

320
00:12:28,970 --> 00:12:27,420
friend was talking with George Knapp

321
00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:28,980
about whether zodiac is a real thing

322
00:12:32,810 --> 00:12:30,720
right is that an organization is that a

323
00:12:34,490 --> 00:12:32,820
code word for a Loosely organized group

324
00:12:36,530 --> 00:12:34,500
we hear about groups like The Collins

325
00:12:38,269 --> 00:12:36,540
Elite which is also you know or the

326
00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:38,279
invisible College all these sort of

327
00:12:42,350 --> 00:12:40,320
Infamous groups right

328
00:12:44,990 --> 00:12:42,360
studying this topic sort of behind the

329
00:12:47,449 --> 00:12:45,000
scenes because like you say it was so

330
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:47,459
carefully guarded you know and and I

331
00:12:50,329 --> 00:12:48,959
think actually if I'm unless I'm

332
00:12:51,710 --> 00:12:50,339
mistaken the name of that book that I

333
00:12:53,690 --> 00:12:51,720
was reading is actually called Above Top

334
00:12:56,210 --> 00:12:53,700
Secret referring to what you were saying

335
00:12:58,790 --> 00:12:56,220
with the age ball right that there and I

336
00:13:00,650 --> 00:12:58,800
think that kind of puts uh Paints the

337
00:13:04,129 --> 00:13:00,660
picture for people right it helps frame

338
00:13:06,110 --> 00:13:04,139
it that we know how top secret the

339
00:13:08,269 --> 00:13:06,120
h-bomb development was right that in

340
00:13:10,310 --> 00:13:08,279
many ways if uh the powers that be felt

341
00:13:12,110 --> 00:13:10,320
like the future of civilization it was a

342
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:12,120
clash of civilizations right the Soviet

343
00:13:17,569 --> 00:13:15,600
powers and The Westerns and

344
00:13:20,090 --> 00:13:17,579
um and to imagine that something was on

345
00:13:21,769 --> 00:13:20,100
a higher degree than that right uh is is

346
00:13:24,350 --> 00:13:21,779
pretty interesting

347
00:13:26,990 --> 00:13:24,360
which of course begs the question what

348
00:13:28,670 --> 00:13:27,000
was the nature of the revelations that

349
00:13:30,889 --> 00:13:28,680
required to be

350
00:13:33,170 --> 00:13:30,899
at such a high level of secrecy right is

351
00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:33,180
it I've heard some people suggest and I

352
00:13:38,509 --> 00:13:36,000
I can come across either way this way

353
00:13:40,370 --> 00:13:38,519
suggest that if it was just space aliens

354
00:13:42,590 --> 00:13:40,380
they don't think it would you know

355
00:13:44,569 --> 00:13:42,600
involve this much secrecy and that's why

356
00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:44,579
there's been this question around could

357
00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:46,320
it be the DNA link that we talked about

358
00:13:49,670 --> 00:13:48,240
last time is that the part that people

359
00:13:52,490 --> 00:13:49,680
just felt like there's no way the

360
00:13:53,389 --> 00:13:52,500
general public can handle that you know

361
00:13:55,490 --> 00:13:53,399
um

362
00:13:58,250 --> 00:13:55,500
but I know for me like we've talked many

363
00:13:59,990 --> 00:13:58,260
times about this and and when we again

364
00:14:01,670 --> 00:14:00,000
think about reflecting over the last

365
00:14:03,530 --> 00:14:01,680
year

366
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:03,540
I think both of us since we first got

367
00:14:07,190 --> 00:14:05,279
into this topic

368
00:14:08,449 --> 00:14:07,200
have moved more towards conspiracy

369
00:14:11,870 --> 00:14:08,459
thinking and I don't mean in terms of

370
00:14:14,030 --> 00:14:11,880
just crazy uh schemes that are not

371
00:14:15,650 --> 00:14:14,040
supported by evidence but actually the

372
00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:15,660
contrary that when you actually start

373
00:14:18,889 --> 00:14:17,519
digging you find things that are kind of

374
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:18,899
contrary to what you would prefer to

375
00:14:24,590 --> 00:14:21,360
believe it no one wants to believe that

376
00:14:27,710 --> 00:14:24,600
their government could be this deceitful

377
00:14:30,530 --> 00:14:27,720
and have this level of false narrative

378
00:14:32,210 --> 00:14:30,540
being presented to the public and that's

379
00:14:33,410 --> 00:14:32,220
kind of where you land so I think for me

380
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:33,420
that's been

381
00:14:38,210 --> 00:14:36,480
the biggest shift is is that I started

382
00:14:40,310 --> 00:14:38,220
down a rabbit hole but how deep I went

383
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:40,320
and how many side tunnels that opened up

384
00:14:46,069 --> 00:14:43,199
I was really not prepared for yeah

385
00:14:50,030 --> 00:14:46,079
yeah that's uh perhaps a cautionary Tale

386
00:14:51,829 --> 00:14:50,040
in some ways right so I think um you

387
00:14:55,129 --> 00:14:51,839
know keep in mind there's no road map

388
00:14:57,710 --> 00:14:55,139
here there's no uh you know coursework

389
00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:57,720
syllabus we can give you that it's gonna

390
00:15:05,329 --> 00:15:01,440
take you on the right quote-unquote path

391
00:15:08,810 --> 00:15:05,339
of of Discovery here and and also

392
00:15:12,410 --> 00:15:08,820
recognizing that your connection to this

393
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:12,420
topic is is very much situated in who

394
00:15:17,090 --> 00:15:14,639
you are you know so if you've had an

395
00:15:18,769 --> 00:15:17,100
actual experience uh you have a friend

396
00:15:20,990 --> 00:15:18,779
who's having experience and you believe

397
00:15:22,610 --> 00:15:21,000
them that changes the way that you

398
00:15:26,509 --> 00:15:22,620
approach this if you haven't had an

399
00:15:30,590 --> 00:15:26,519
experience uh and yet you find

400
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:30,600
some of the witness testimony uh the uh

401
00:15:35,629 --> 00:15:33,120
the evidence that we've seen from

402
00:15:38,210 --> 00:15:35,639
various places we find that compelling

403
00:15:40,610 --> 00:15:38,220
then you're coming at it from a very

404
00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:40,620
different angle and you're you know

405
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:42,240
maybe looking at it from a national

406
00:15:46,250 --> 00:15:44,160
security perspective or looking at it

407
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:46,260
from a technology perspective so they're

408
00:15:50,150 --> 00:15:48,240
all these different uh Frameworks from

409
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:50,160
which you might be connecting with with

410
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:53,279
the subject and you know it can be kind

411
00:15:57,410 --> 00:15:55,440
of jarring

412
00:16:00,170 --> 00:15:57,420
in my opinion the most jarring Journey

413
00:16:01,850 --> 00:16:00,180
probably comes from that on-ramp as

414
00:16:04,009 --> 00:16:01,860
opposed to the experiencer one although

415
00:16:07,550 --> 00:16:04,019
that has its own you know sort of

416
00:16:10,189 --> 00:16:07,560
extreme uh discombobulating effect

417
00:16:11,990 --> 00:16:10,199
right so but if you come at it from a

418
00:16:14,750 --> 00:16:12,000
nuts and bolts angle like I think many

419
00:16:18,110 --> 00:16:14,760
of us do and you really kind of dig dig

420
00:16:20,090 --> 00:16:18,120
into it uh you you can kind of find

421
00:16:22,670 --> 00:16:20,100
yourself at the end or where you are my

422
00:16:24,829 --> 00:16:22,680
I are right now looking back and go wow

423
00:16:27,769 --> 00:16:24,839
like I'm not even sure

424
00:16:29,870 --> 00:16:27,779
what feels solid anymore on the on the

425
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:29,880
ground that I'm standing on

426
00:16:35,569 --> 00:16:33,600
um and so that can be a big challenge so

427
00:16:37,370 --> 00:16:35,579
I want I say that to say just you know

428
00:16:40,069 --> 00:16:37,380
if you're coming at this from a from a

429
00:16:43,490 --> 00:16:40,079
fresh you know brand person brand new

430
00:16:46,189 --> 00:16:43,500
person perspective take your time uh you

431
00:16:49,670 --> 00:16:46,199
know don't uh jump to Quick conclusions

432
00:16:51,170 --> 00:16:49,680
you know read as much as you can weigh

433
00:16:53,810 --> 00:16:51,180
all of the different anecdotes and

434
00:16:56,210 --> 00:16:53,820
evidence that that you can and and try

435
00:16:58,009 --> 00:16:56,220
to hold that at arm's length examine it

436
00:17:00,170 --> 00:16:58,019
look at it from a variety of

437
00:17:02,509 --> 00:17:00,180
perspectives and then kind of see what

438
00:17:06,409 --> 00:17:02,519
you know percolates to the top there I

439
00:17:08,929 --> 00:17:06,419
think that will be the best way to uh

440
00:17:10,669 --> 00:17:08,939
to assimilate the content

441
00:17:13,130 --> 00:17:10,679
um

442
00:17:15,530 --> 00:17:13,140
yeah and I was I was thinking a couple

443
00:17:16,669 --> 00:17:15,540
things before I forget because

444
00:17:19,789 --> 00:17:16,679
um something encouraged me when you were

445
00:17:21,289 --> 00:17:19,799
saying this number one

446
00:17:22,850 --> 00:17:21,299
in terms of you said this thing about

447
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:22,860
sorry there's no syllabus we can give

448
00:17:25,850 --> 00:17:23,760
you right

449
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:25,860
not only that but I I've actually had

450
00:17:28,909 --> 00:17:27,600
people write me and say Hey you seem to

451
00:17:31,850 --> 00:17:28,919
have come to some fairly strong

452
00:17:34,549 --> 00:17:31,860
conclusions can you tell me exactly like

453
00:17:36,590 --> 00:17:34,559
the the nine books I need to read the

454
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:36,600
three YouTube videos I need to watch and

455
00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:38,160
the two podcasts I need to listen to to

456
00:17:42,049 --> 00:17:40,080
get to that same place right you can't

457
00:17:44,690 --> 00:17:42,059
do it right and and

458
00:17:46,669 --> 00:17:44,700
I would say that number one where I've

459
00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:46,679
landed is piecing together all sorts of

460
00:17:50,570 --> 00:17:48,720
different information right is number

461
00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:50,580
one that I that I don't even keep track

462
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:51,840
of it it's a little bit here or there

463
00:17:54,049 --> 00:17:53,039
you get a little nugget over here

464
00:17:56,270 --> 00:17:54,059
something else over here that

465
00:17:58,310 --> 00:17:56,280
corroborates that that kind of thing but

466
00:17:59,930 --> 00:17:58,320
on top of that

467
00:18:01,850 --> 00:17:59,940
two different people

468
00:18:03,409 --> 00:18:01,860
could or three different people could be

469
00:18:04,789 --> 00:18:03,419
exposed to the exact same material and

470
00:18:07,850 --> 00:18:04,799
come to different conclusions that's

471
00:18:09,650 --> 00:18:07,860
part of the Enigma of this topic is that

472
00:18:11,810 --> 00:18:09,660
your own Consciousness comes into play

473
00:18:13,310 --> 00:18:11,820
You're you you then you know there's a

474
00:18:15,169 --> 00:18:13,320
there's an expression that says you know

475
00:18:16,730 --> 00:18:15,179
when you start taking note of the

476
00:18:18,650 --> 00:18:16,740
phenomenon the phenomenon starts taking

477
00:18:20,270 --> 00:18:18,660
note of you right

478
00:18:22,430 --> 00:18:20,280
um and

479
00:18:23,810 --> 00:18:22,440
another way to look at that is that you

480
00:18:26,029 --> 00:18:23,820
can't help but

481
00:18:28,130 --> 00:18:26,039
have your Consciousness be one of the

482
00:18:29,930 --> 00:18:28,140
factors one of the variables in play

483
00:18:31,549 --> 00:18:29,940
here and this is this is one of the

484
00:18:34,190 --> 00:18:31,559
ongoing challenges when it comes to a

485
00:18:36,169 --> 00:18:34,200
species trying to understand itself or

486
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:36,179
understand a cosmos of which they are

487
00:18:40,909 --> 00:18:38,160
apart and entangled in a way that you

488
00:18:43,250 --> 00:18:40,919
can't really separate us from the cosmos

489
00:18:46,130 --> 00:18:43,260
we're in right so so how do you quote

490
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:46,140
unquote objectively study that right and

491
00:18:49,549 --> 00:18:47,760
and so two different people will come to

492
00:18:51,529 --> 00:18:49,559
different conclusions because their own

493
00:18:54,169 --> 00:18:51,539
Consciousness is The X Factor right

494
00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:54,179
because the rest lines up

495
00:18:58,130 --> 00:18:56,160
and I think one thing that would be

496
00:18:59,630 --> 00:18:58,140
interesting for us to get into amidst

497
00:19:03,110 --> 00:18:59,640
these different topics that will take on

498
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:03,120
one by one is to reckon with the fact

499
00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:05,520
that and you kind of hinted at it there

500
00:19:09,610 --> 00:19:06,960
where

501
00:19:13,190 --> 00:19:09,620
it starts here but by the end of the day

502
00:19:16,909 --> 00:19:13,200
everything is in play reality

503
00:19:19,549 --> 00:19:16,919
Life Death the nature of existence

504
00:19:22,190 --> 00:19:19,559
what is physicality right all these

505
00:19:23,570 --> 00:19:22,200
things a material world versus an

506
00:19:24,830 --> 00:19:23,580
idealistic world you know you and I

507
00:19:27,470 --> 00:19:24,840
before we went on the air talked about

508
00:19:29,870 --> 00:19:27,480
this how we've been persuaded towards

509
00:19:32,930 --> 00:19:29,880
this idealistic kind of persuasion

510
00:19:34,730 --> 00:19:32,940
perspective on reality and we've seen

511
00:19:37,669 --> 00:19:34,740
how difficult it is for people to really

512
00:19:39,470 --> 00:19:37,679
take that step and really grasp what

513
00:19:42,549 --> 00:19:39,480
that means how far it goes so we'll

514
00:19:45,230 --> 00:19:42,559
we'll have people that will talk about

515
00:19:47,090 --> 00:19:45,240
some manifestations of the phenomenon

516
00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:47,100
being kind of a virtual reality right

517
00:19:50,570 --> 00:19:48,960
but they feel very confident that

518
00:19:53,090 --> 00:19:50,580
everything else though is solid and safe

519
00:19:54,590 --> 00:19:53,100
right and what we're saying is that

520
00:19:56,150 --> 00:19:54,600
actually the whole thing I mean there's

521
00:19:57,650 --> 00:19:56,160
no use talking about aspects that are

522
00:19:59,690 --> 00:19:57,660
virtual because the entire thing is to

523
00:20:02,330 --> 00:19:59,700
some degree it's a like I keep saying I

524
00:20:04,070 --> 00:20:02,340
shared Dreamscape or a mind space uh

525
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:04,080
that's kind of held together in its

526
00:20:08,990 --> 00:20:06,240
cohesion that makes you and I see the

527
00:20:11,150 --> 00:20:09,000
same Sun supposedly every day is because

528
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:11,160
uh it's mind at large so it sort of

529
00:20:14,810 --> 00:20:12,960
holds this dream in place and we are

530
00:20:17,090 --> 00:20:14,820
characters within it embedded within it

531
00:20:21,049 --> 00:20:17,100
so we can separate ourselves from the

532
00:20:22,850 --> 00:20:21,059
dream but because it's a dream uh it it

533
00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:22,860
has some malleable elements and this is

534
00:20:25,490 --> 00:20:24,240
where some of these others seem to

535
00:20:27,470 --> 00:20:25,500
understand this and that's why I

536
00:20:30,110 --> 00:20:27,480
remember saying to you sort of halfway

537
00:20:32,330 --> 00:20:30,120
through 2022 I kind of had this

538
00:20:35,330 --> 00:20:32,340
Revelation around this notion of

539
00:20:37,310 --> 00:20:35,340
intermentation right this idea that it's

540
00:20:39,950 --> 00:20:37,320
more like these different processes of

541
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:39,960
mentation or fields of mentation and we

542
00:20:44,990 --> 00:20:42,960
exist within one that feels solid and

543
00:20:47,390 --> 00:20:45,000
coherent right just like this this I've

544
00:20:49,669 --> 00:20:47,400
got my laptop Sitting on This Island

545
00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:49,679
here in the kitchen and it feels really

546
00:20:53,029 --> 00:20:51,120
solid you know it's kind of granite

547
00:20:55,610 --> 00:20:53,039
right as much as solid as you can get of

548
00:20:57,529 --> 00:20:55,620
the diamond baby but

549
00:21:00,409 --> 00:20:57,539
even physics tells us this is mostly

550
00:21:02,270 --> 00:21:00,419
empty space with a few you know Atomic

551
00:21:04,669 --> 00:21:02,280
components within it and then basically

552
00:21:07,669 --> 00:21:04,679
a field which gives it its hook its

553
00:21:09,770 --> 00:21:07,679
coherence and its appearance and its

554
00:21:12,289 --> 00:21:09,780
um you know aspect of physicality but

555
00:21:14,510 --> 00:21:12,299
it's completely relative virtual in many

556
00:21:16,070 --> 00:21:14,520
ways you could say so that's what's so

557
00:21:18,850 --> 00:21:16,080
fascinating about this topic is you

558
00:21:22,130 --> 00:21:18,860
can't you can't I think honestly go in

559
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:22,140
uh and and really dig and not end up in

560
00:21:26,029 --> 00:21:24,000
these places

561
00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:26,039
right there's a there's kind of a

562
00:21:30,649 --> 00:21:27,600
resonance to

563
00:21:32,570 --> 00:21:30,659
uh not just objects as you just pointed

564
00:21:35,330 --> 00:21:32,580
out there there's a resonance to our

565
00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:35,340
experience of reality and there's a

566
00:21:41,330 --> 00:21:37,440
separate kind of resonance to other

567
00:21:43,130 --> 00:21:41,340
experiences of reality that we may not

568
00:21:45,890 --> 00:21:43,140
have direct or

569
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:45,900
our our experience of that is uh very

570
00:21:50,570 --> 00:21:49,200
indirect and so when you have these kind

571
00:21:53,029 --> 00:21:50,580
of red think of them as resonant

572
00:21:56,330 --> 00:21:53,039
frequencies if they kind of

573
00:21:57,950 --> 00:21:56,340
you cross the streams right if you uh if

574
00:21:59,930 --> 00:21:57,960
they kind of bump up against each other

575
00:22:02,450 --> 00:21:59,940
there is a little bit of an interference

576
00:22:04,669 --> 00:22:02,460
pattern that may occur there and that

577
00:22:08,570 --> 00:22:04,679
that that interference pattern

578
00:22:11,210 --> 00:22:08,580
can present itself in both our resonant

579
00:22:14,690 --> 00:22:11,220
reality and whatever the other resonant

580
00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:14,700
reality uh is at as different types of

581
00:22:19,130 --> 00:22:16,260
phenomena

582
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:19,140
um but but macroscopically it's it's

583
00:22:23,330 --> 00:22:21,360
those two different kinds of new season

584
00:22:26,750 --> 00:22:23,340
two kind of a binary example those two

585
00:22:28,850 --> 00:22:26,760
resonances exist within a grander

586
00:22:31,430 --> 00:22:28,860
red resonant field of mutation as you

587
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:31,440
pointed out and so looking at it from

588
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:33,360
that perspective at least from my

589
00:22:36,590 --> 00:22:35,280
standpoint has been extremely helpful in

590
00:22:39,049 --> 00:22:36,600
approaching this

591
00:22:40,970 --> 00:22:39,059
this topic and I also recognize that

592
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:40,980
we've just kind of distilled in that

593
00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:44,640
little back and forth like a pretty big

594
00:22:49,730 --> 00:22:46,980
kind of different leap and jump than

595
00:22:51,049 --> 00:22:49,740
where most people land uh you know when

596
00:22:52,669 --> 00:22:51,059
they're when they're studying this from

597
00:22:54,409 --> 00:22:52,679
the first time

598
00:22:55,669 --> 00:22:54,419
um so maybe if I can rewind just a

599
00:22:58,370 --> 00:22:55,679
little bit

600
00:22:59,870 --> 00:22:58,380
going back to these uh non-human

601
00:23:02,270 --> 00:22:59,880
intelligences so let's just start with

602
00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:02,280
that you know that there that there may

603
00:23:07,870 --> 00:23:05,520
in fact be some some entities other than

604
00:23:09,950 --> 00:23:07,880
human and the prevailing initial

605
00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:09,960
hypothesis there was that they were

606
00:23:13,549 --> 00:23:12,240
extraterrestrial of course you and I

607
00:23:17,289 --> 00:23:13,559
know that there that isn't the only

608
00:23:19,310 --> 00:23:17,299
hypothesis there are other hypotheses

609
00:23:23,630 --> 00:23:19,320
interdimensional ultra-terrestrial

610
00:23:25,970 --> 00:23:23,640
crypto terrestrial extra tempestral

611
00:23:27,890 --> 00:23:25,980
um a lot of different uh you know

612
00:23:30,049 --> 00:23:27,900
typologies here

613
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:30,059
um and and they could all be on the

614
00:23:34,430 --> 00:23:32,159
table right so I think that that's

615
00:23:36,770 --> 00:23:34,440
what's also quite uh don't forget

616
00:23:38,750 --> 00:23:36,780
intermentational and intermentational so

617
00:23:39,350 --> 00:23:38,760
it can be quite confabulating

618
00:23:42,169 --> 00:23:39,360
um

619
00:23:44,330 --> 00:23:42,179
and uh

620
00:23:47,870 --> 00:23:44,340
you know you can to me like whatever

621
00:23:50,810 --> 00:23:47,880
hypothesis you're most uh drawn towards

622
00:23:53,029 --> 00:23:50,820
it is a mirror of the way in which you

623
00:23:55,549 --> 00:23:53,039
look at the world around you right so

624
00:23:58,130 --> 00:23:55,559
let's just take the the easiest one I

625
00:23:59,450 --> 00:23:58,140
think the Extraterrestrial one you know

626
00:24:02,090 --> 00:23:59,460
why was that such a compelling

627
00:24:04,190 --> 00:24:02,100
hypothesis well it was the dawn of the

628
00:24:05,810 --> 00:24:04,200
Space Race it was the you know our

629
00:24:07,850 --> 00:24:05,820
science was kind of just starting to do

630
00:24:09,710 --> 00:24:07,860
some pretty amazing things and we

631
00:24:11,270 --> 00:24:09,720
realized that you know here we were

632
00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:11,280
planet Earth and there were all these

633
00:24:16,130 --> 00:24:14,400
other planets out there and uh

634
00:24:18,590 --> 00:24:16,140
you know there's life here maybe there's

635
00:24:20,690 --> 00:24:18,600
life on Venus maybe there's Life on Mars

636
00:24:23,210 --> 00:24:20,700
like these were the you know kind of the

637
00:24:25,490 --> 00:24:23,220
low-hanging fruit of the cosmologies of

638
00:24:27,649 --> 00:24:25,500
that gig given day and that that's why

639
00:24:30,649 --> 00:24:27,659
those theories became the most

640
00:24:32,570 --> 00:24:30,659
prevalent you know if you go back in

641
00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:32,580
time we talked about this a little bit

642
00:24:35,029 --> 00:24:33,900
and I don't know we'll dwell on it too

643
00:24:38,149 --> 00:24:35,039
much but if you go back in time

644
00:24:40,010 --> 00:24:38,159
centuries before the human humans had

645
00:24:41,810 --> 00:24:40,020
you know sort of this deeper

646
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:41,820
understanding of our place in the solar

647
00:24:46,149 --> 00:24:44,159
system these entities would have been

648
00:24:49,610 --> 00:24:46,159
viewed from a kind of a more

649
00:24:51,890 --> 00:24:49,620
metaphysical perspective in a demonic or

650
00:24:54,169 --> 00:24:51,900
Angelic or you know certainly not human

651
00:24:56,330 --> 00:24:54,179
but interacting with humans and kind of

652
00:24:59,029 --> 00:24:56,340
messing with us in certain ways

653
00:25:01,370 --> 00:24:59,039
sometimes for our benefit sometimes not

654
00:25:03,950 --> 00:25:01,380
for our benefit and we're all part of

655
00:25:06,289 --> 00:25:03,960
the larger game that is involved with

656
00:25:08,690 --> 00:25:06,299
kind of a war between these competing

657
00:25:10,789 --> 00:25:08,700
factions and you know God and Satan and

658
00:25:13,370 --> 00:25:10,799
all this kind of stuff so

659
00:25:15,409 --> 00:25:13,380
um whatever you feel most drawn to to me

660
00:25:17,390 --> 00:25:15,419
and is a good mirror to how you see the

661
00:25:19,430 --> 00:25:17,400
world but what do you think about that

662
00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:19,440
yeah it's a great point and I I think we

663
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:20,640
should really stress this for people

664
00:25:31,850 --> 00:25:21,840
that

665
00:25:34,909 --> 00:25:31,860
data was consumed changed right which

666
00:25:37,010 --> 00:25:34,919
tells you a lot so in you know medieval

667
00:25:39,169 --> 00:25:37,020
times they would have maybe seen them as

668
00:25:41,630 --> 00:25:39,179
fairies or something like that these you

669
00:25:44,269 --> 00:25:41,640
know cave dwelling beings that could you

670
00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:44,279
know sometimes disappear into the you

671
00:25:47,570 --> 00:25:46,799
know Netherworld or something like that

672
00:25:50,450 --> 00:25:47,580
um

673
00:25:53,210 --> 00:25:50,460
is it that there's so much difference in

674
00:25:54,529 --> 00:25:53,220
the actual criteria of the events not

675
00:25:56,269 --> 00:25:54,539
really I mean that's kind of what

676
00:25:58,370 --> 00:25:56,279
Jacques valet pointed out is that when

677
00:26:00,950 --> 00:25:58,380
you in passport to Magonia that when you

678
00:26:03,769 --> 00:26:00,960
actually break down the surface veneer

679
00:26:06,049 --> 00:26:03,779
which often is an interpretive layer

680
00:26:08,510 --> 00:26:06,059
the raw experience is remarkably similar

681
00:26:11,570 --> 00:26:08,520
you know you have missing time uh you

682
00:26:13,130 --> 00:26:11,580
know and uh people disappearing and then

683
00:26:16,750 --> 00:26:13,140
reappearing some people never being

684
00:26:19,070 --> 00:26:16,760
returned you know uh experiences where

685
00:26:21,529 --> 00:26:19,080
perception and Consciousness seems to be

686
00:26:24,049 --> 00:26:21,539
manipulated by these others right and

687
00:26:26,029 --> 00:26:24,059
like you hinted at in yesteryear that

688
00:26:27,470 --> 00:26:26,039
was interpreted as like spiritual Powers

689
00:26:29,149 --> 00:26:27,480
right whereas now we would say well

690
00:26:31,490 --> 00:26:29,159
these et's have some sort of like really

691
00:26:33,409 --> 00:26:31,500
advanced technology that can impact

692
00:26:35,450 --> 00:26:33,419
Consciousness but we're we're trying to

693
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:35,460
parse it from a from a physicalist point

694
00:26:39,110 --> 00:26:37,440
of view right so this is really

695
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:39,120
important to point out that again it's

696
00:26:44,149 --> 00:26:41,039
not so much the data is different it's

697
00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:44,159
that the models that consume that data

698
00:26:49,250 --> 00:26:45,360
and try to make sense of it are

699
00:26:51,649 --> 00:26:49,260
different another thing I would say is

700
00:26:53,210 --> 00:26:51,659
a little bit surprisingly I would say um

701
00:26:55,850 --> 00:26:53,220
you know even some of the people pushing

702
00:26:56,750 --> 00:26:55,860
for disclosure so take Chris melon as an

703
00:27:01,130 --> 00:26:56,760
example

704
00:27:02,930 --> 00:27:01,140
he's been more open recently saying you

705
00:27:05,029 --> 00:27:02,940
know he he was more and more he was more

706
00:27:08,090 --> 00:27:05,039
Coy last year than the year before right

707
00:27:10,850 --> 00:27:08,100
but he's becoming more outward in terms

708
00:27:12,289 --> 00:27:10,860
of saying the ET hypothesis fits the

709
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:12,299
data you know that's probably better

710
00:27:16,490 --> 00:27:13,919
than anything else right now or as good

711
00:27:18,409 --> 00:27:16,500
as anything else and

712
00:27:20,690 --> 00:27:18,419
that's interesting because I think a lot

713
00:27:23,289 --> 00:27:20,700
of us in this community earlier in the

714
00:27:25,970 --> 00:27:23,299
year and in back in 2021

715
00:27:28,370 --> 00:27:25,980
we're talking about Ultra terrestrials a

716
00:27:30,649 --> 00:27:28,380
lot right and uh

717
00:27:32,029 --> 00:27:30,659
and so this we were kind of you know

718
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:32,039
familiar with this notion that maybe

719
00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:34,080
Ichi was not the best fit for the data

720
00:27:38,630 --> 00:27:36,480
kind of like Jacques filet and and John

721
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:38,640
kill came to those conclusions so then

722
00:27:42,049 --> 00:27:40,320
you ask yourself and this is what I try

723
00:27:43,549 --> 00:27:42,059
to encourage people to do right when you

724
00:27:46,190 --> 00:27:43,559
hear someone like Chris Mellon making a

725
00:27:48,110 --> 00:27:46,200
statement like that don't just say this

726
00:27:49,669 --> 00:27:48,120
guy had a high ranking position in the

727
00:27:51,950 --> 00:27:49,679
U.S military so he must know what he's

728
00:27:54,169 --> 00:27:51,960
talking about he may but don't assume

729
00:27:56,450 --> 00:27:54,179
that what I would say is step back and

730
00:28:00,230 --> 00:27:56,460
ask yourself is it his level of

731
00:28:03,710 --> 00:28:00,240
Consciousness is it his biases that make

732
00:28:05,510 --> 00:28:03,720
him say ET is the best option is ET

733
00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:05,520
better than the ultra terrestrial for

734
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:07,320
instance it may be better than a than a

735
00:28:11,930 --> 00:28:09,120
terrestrial conventional power right

736
00:28:13,669 --> 00:28:11,940
like the Russians or the Chinese or Iran

737
00:28:15,529 --> 00:28:13,679
or something but is it better than

738
00:28:18,049 --> 00:28:15,539
ultra-terrestrial or interdimensional

739
00:28:19,490 --> 00:28:18,059
and and how would he know that right I

740
00:28:21,710 --> 00:28:19,500
would pause it to you that it's not a

741
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:21,720
better fit but he actually just prefers

742
00:28:26,390 --> 00:28:24,480
like you began this conversation he kind

743
00:28:28,130 --> 00:28:26,400
of leans towards E.T because it makes

744
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:28,140
sense to him he he can grapple with that

745
00:28:33,409 --> 00:28:31,440
one it's exists within his worldview so

746
00:28:35,090 --> 00:28:33,419
for for his worldview that's the most

747
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:35,100
obvious fit but that's a good example

748
00:28:39,049 --> 00:28:36,960
that just because it's the best fit for

749
00:28:41,269 --> 00:28:39,059
him doesn't mean it's ultimately the

750
00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:41,279
right answer

751
00:28:46,730 --> 00:28:43,679
and you know to kind of take that point

752
00:28:50,210 --> 00:28:46,740
a little further too it's um you know

753
00:28:52,430 --> 00:28:50,220
how could it not change right so if we

754
00:28:55,789 --> 00:28:52,440
had a time machine right now we could go

755
00:28:58,610 --> 00:28:55,799
into the future A Thousand Years uh and

756
00:29:00,409 --> 00:28:58,620
and just well let's let's kind of take

757
00:29:02,630 --> 00:29:00,419
you know ETS out of the equation but

758
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:02,640
let's look at Future Humanity in our

759
00:29:07,730 --> 00:29:05,760
understanding of of reality in a

760
00:29:09,769 --> 00:29:07,740
thousand years right it's not going to

761
00:29:11,930 --> 00:29:09,779
look anything like our understanding of

762
00:29:13,549 --> 00:29:11,940
reality today

763
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:13,559
um the people of a thousand years from

764
00:29:16,909 --> 00:29:15,600
now will read about today and they'll

765
00:29:19,130 --> 00:29:16,919
think oh wow

766
00:29:20,750 --> 00:29:19,140
look how much they got wrong like like I

767
00:29:25,850 --> 00:29:20,760
mean they thought this unbelievable

768
00:29:29,450 --> 00:29:25,860
right I mean so that to me is um

769
00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:29,460
I I view that as a Core Fact of of re of

770
00:29:33,350 --> 00:29:31,440
of reality of experience that it's it's

771
00:29:35,330 --> 00:29:33,360
shifting it's changing that it's

772
00:29:37,250 --> 00:29:35,340
conditioned that it's contextual like

773
00:29:40,250 --> 00:29:37,260
these are things that are just part and

774
00:29:42,649 --> 00:29:40,260
parcel of of living and having a spatial

775
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:42,659
temporal experience

776
00:29:49,310 --> 00:29:46,320
um and you know when I acknowledge that

777
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:49,320
and and I'm honest with that truth I

778
00:29:54,289 --> 00:29:50,399
can't help

779
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:54,299
but play that exercise and and play it

780
00:29:58,850 --> 00:29:56,399
backwards and forwards and then and then

781
00:30:01,130 --> 00:29:58,860
come out of that exercise going wow what

782
00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:01,140
you know what do we really know what can

783
00:30:06,289 --> 00:30:04,320
we really say definitively you know what

784
00:30:08,269 --> 00:30:06,299
what can we say ontologically about what

785
00:30:10,250 --> 00:30:08,279
what this happens to be

786
00:30:12,710 --> 00:30:10,260
and I think that's a lot of what you and

787
00:30:15,889 --> 00:30:12,720
I have really tried hard to wrestle with

788
00:30:18,789 --> 00:30:15,899
here is that uh our

789
00:30:21,169 --> 00:30:18,799
you know our taxonomy like our our

790
00:30:23,210 --> 00:30:21,179
attempts at labeling whatever this is

791
00:30:25,370 --> 00:30:23,220
like they always kind of fall short to

792
00:30:27,230 --> 00:30:25,380
some degree and they always will because

793
00:30:29,090 --> 00:30:27,240
as new information it enters the

794
00:30:31,549 --> 00:30:29,100
equation we have to take that into

795
00:30:34,909 --> 00:30:31,559
account and reframe

796
00:30:36,470 --> 00:30:34,919
uh what our understanding of it happens

797
00:30:37,130 --> 00:30:36,480
to be

798
00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:37,140
um

799
00:30:41,690 --> 00:30:39,600
as part of that exercise as well and

800
00:30:43,970 --> 00:30:41,700
we've talked about this a ton you know

801
00:30:46,370 --> 00:30:43,980
lies sort of the root of understanding

802
00:30:48,409 --> 00:30:46,380
the root of experience and that is our

803
00:30:49,730 --> 00:30:48,419
conscious awareness right so if we're

804
00:30:52,190 --> 00:30:49,740
kind of coming down into first

805
00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:52,200
principles you know conscious awareness

806
00:30:57,350 --> 00:30:54,720
for you and I has become this kind of

807
00:31:00,409 --> 00:30:57,360
lodestar and it's helping us uh

808
00:31:03,169 --> 00:31:00,419
understand and approach every facet of

809
00:31:05,269 --> 00:31:03,179
of the data because at the end of the

810
00:31:07,010 --> 00:31:05,279
day that's what some that is the most

811
00:31:10,430 --> 00:31:07,020
Solid Ground we feel that we can stand

812
00:31:13,370 --> 00:31:10,440
on is saying we have experience we are

813
00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:13,380
conscious of having experience and that

814
00:31:17,149 --> 00:31:15,600
colors everything else

815
00:31:18,649 --> 00:31:17,159
um so I don't know if you want to kind

816
00:31:20,510 --> 00:31:18,659
of expound a little bit on that but to

817
00:31:21,230 --> 00:31:20,520
me like that's the

818
00:31:23,450 --> 00:31:21,240
um

819
00:31:25,010 --> 00:31:23,460
that that's the whole enchilada in a way

820
00:31:26,690 --> 00:31:25,020
you know kind of thinking about it from

821
00:31:29,510 --> 00:31:26,700
that perspective

822
00:31:31,310 --> 00:31:29,520
um and it definitely allows you to go

823
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:31,320
from this

824
00:31:34,850 --> 00:31:32,000
ET

825
00:31:37,730 --> 00:31:34,860
conclusion to something else entirely

826
00:31:38,870 --> 00:31:37,740
but also not to exclude it either I

827
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:38,880
think that's something that you you

828
00:31:44,330 --> 00:31:41,760
might like to harp on quite a bit

829
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:44,340
yeah so I think what we can maybe sort

830
00:31:47,510 --> 00:31:45,600
of toggle back and forth a little bit

831
00:31:51,049 --> 00:31:47,520
tonight is between

832
00:31:53,289 --> 00:31:51,059
again just you know Reckoning with

833
00:31:55,310 --> 00:31:53,299
what's on the table in terms of public

834
00:31:57,110 --> 00:31:55,320
disclosure and how that might be

835
00:31:59,810 --> 00:31:57,120
received and what kind of things would

836
00:32:01,370 --> 00:31:59,820
that might include but also talk about

837
00:32:03,649 --> 00:32:01,380
you know the much deeper level what's

838
00:32:06,289 --> 00:32:03,659
what we think is really going on

839
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:06,299
um and to get to the point you just

840
00:32:11,149 --> 00:32:07,919
brought up you know with conscious

841
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:11,159
experience yeah the notion there is that

842
00:32:15,230 --> 00:32:12,720
when you really think about it this is

843
00:32:16,250 --> 00:32:15,240
the one thing we're sure of is that the

844
00:32:17,690 --> 00:32:16,260
fact that we're asking that question

845
00:32:19,549 --> 00:32:17,700
suggests we're having a conscious

846
00:32:21,409 --> 00:32:19,559
experience asking about our conscious

847
00:32:23,870 --> 00:32:21,419
experience right

848
00:32:25,789 --> 00:32:23,880
um when we posit the notion of a

849
00:32:28,190 --> 00:32:25,799
physical world that exists outside of

850
00:32:31,310 --> 00:32:28,200
that conscious experience that's an

851
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:31,320
abstraction for which we have no proof

852
00:32:34,490 --> 00:32:33,360
nor could we ever have proof because of

853
00:32:36,769 --> 00:32:34,500
the same thing I said in the beginning

854
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:36,779
you can't extract yourself from the

855
00:32:41,690 --> 00:32:38,640
equation you know we are part of

856
00:32:43,789 --> 00:32:41,700
whatever this is right our you know

857
00:32:45,289 --> 00:32:43,799
entanglement which again I think quantum

858
00:32:47,510 --> 00:32:45,299
theory only gets us part way there but

859
00:32:49,730 --> 00:32:47,520
it's a helpful pointer saying that you

860
00:32:51,649 --> 00:32:49,740
you can't ultimately separate who you

861
00:32:53,029 --> 00:32:51,659
are from the table you're sitting at

862
00:32:55,730 --> 00:32:53,039
right

863
00:32:57,289 --> 00:32:55,740
um the reason why telepathy works you

864
00:32:59,450 --> 00:32:57,299
know and and precognition and things

865
00:33:01,190 --> 00:32:59,460
like that and I might get a Vibe about

866
00:33:02,810 --> 00:33:01,200
what Nathan's thinking without him

867
00:33:04,490 --> 00:33:02,820
telling me and without really seeing it

868
00:33:06,169 --> 00:33:04,500
in his facial expression and it's

869
00:33:08,330 --> 00:33:06,179
because there's these porous boundaries

870
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:08,340
and some of this energy can cross over

871
00:33:11,090 --> 00:33:10,320
and and you can actually develop that

872
00:33:14,570 --> 00:33:11,100
skill

873
00:33:16,370 --> 00:33:14,580
on with someone else and of course these

874
00:33:19,850 --> 00:33:16,380
others this is why I use this word

875
00:33:22,190 --> 00:33:19,860
intermentation they excel at that right

876
00:33:24,590 --> 00:33:22,200
they just it's Child's Play for them so

877
00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:24,600
so this is kind of what's on the table

878
00:33:28,850 --> 00:33:27,360
um in terms of moving from a physicalist

879
00:33:30,529 --> 00:33:28,860
interpretation of any of those right

880
00:33:32,930 --> 00:33:30,539
ultraterrestrial extraterrestrial

881
00:33:34,610 --> 00:33:32,940
interdimensional which again when I say

882
00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:34,620
interdimensional I kind of mean more

883
00:33:39,110 --> 00:33:37,679
intermentational like you know fields of

884
00:33:41,690 --> 00:33:39,120
mentation

885
00:33:43,490 --> 00:33:41,700
um mind spaces not so much different

886
00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:43,500
physical Universe was sitting side by

887
00:33:47,269 --> 00:33:45,840
side kind of thing so I use that term a

888
00:33:49,310 --> 00:33:47,279
bit differently

889
00:33:51,110 --> 00:33:49,320
um

890
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:51,120
but I think getting back to what we were

891
00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:53,760
talking about you know with uh with what

892
00:33:57,169 --> 00:33:55,200
Chris mellon's saying and all that kind

893
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:57,179
of thing one thing I wanted to point out

894
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:00,480
with him that just struck me in in this

895
00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:04,080
disclosure process as really absurd

896
00:34:08,030 --> 00:34:06,240
is how

897
00:34:10,129 --> 00:34:08,040
he's basically I was saying let me read

898
00:34:12,169 --> 00:34:10,139
a read a tweet that I wrote today

899
00:34:13,849 --> 00:34:12,179
um in regards to this I said the fact

900
00:34:16,129 --> 00:34:13,859
that Chris Mellon a former government

901
00:34:18,649 --> 00:34:16,139
employee has to do the job of

902
00:34:20,389 --> 00:34:18,659
journalists in telling them about how

903
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:20,399
elements of the military establishment

904
00:34:26,089 --> 00:34:23,040
are actually stonewalling on the topic

905
00:34:28,730 --> 00:34:26,099
of UFO slash UAP disclosure says a lot

906
00:34:31,010 --> 00:34:28,740
about where things really stand

907
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:31,020
and what I was getting at there was he's

908
00:34:34,609 --> 00:34:32,639
basically been saying lately hey

909
00:34:35,930 --> 00:34:34,619
journalists just so you know actually

910
00:34:38,510 --> 00:34:35,940
when you say that the military

911
00:34:40,430 --> 00:34:38,520
establishment is making major uh moves

912
00:34:41,869 --> 00:34:40,440
towards trying to release this he's like

913
00:34:43,970 --> 00:34:41,879
nothing could be further from the truth

914
00:34:47,149 --> 00:34:43,980
like he's saying that his experiences

915
00:34:49,730 --> 00:34:47,159
that every inch of disclosure we get is

916
00:34:52,190 --> 00:34:49,740
from putting feet to the fire and not

917
00:34:53,329 --> 00:34:52,200
stopping that none of these very few of

918
00:34:55,730 --> 00:34:53,339
these insiders and the military

919
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:55,740
establishment want to disclose this

920
00:34:59,030 --> 00:34:57,119
stuff sure there are some individual

921
00:35:00,770 --> 00:34:59,040
people that do and perhaps they're the

922
00:35:02,329 --> 00:35:00,780
ones that'll finally step forward with a

923
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:02,339
whistleblower

924
00:35:07,010 --> 00:35:05,040
um kind of elements that allow them to

925
00:35:09,530 --> 00:35:07,020
do it without being you know prosecuted

926
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:09,540
and without having to suffer

927
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:11,040
um jail time or something for violating

928
00:35:16,370 --> 00:35:14,400
an NDA but the truth is and we've talked

929
00:35:18,670 --> 00:35:16,380
about this before on this show that you

930
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:18,680
have this kind of institutionalized

931
00:35:24,710 --> 00:35:22,800
secrecy campaign right that's been uh so

932
00:35:27,050 --> 00:35:24,720
built into the structure of the military

933
00:35:29,150 --> 00:35:27,060
establishment that even if it had good

934
00:35:30,890 --> 00:35:29,160
reasons early on right like maybe in the

935
00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:30,900
midst of a cold war when there really

936
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:32,640
were a lot of double agents in the CIA

937
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:34,560
for instance that were Soviet

938
00:35:37,790 --> 00:35:35,760
sympathizers

939
00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:37,800
I can completely understand why they

940
00:35:42,950 --> 00:35:40,320
felt like you really had to you know

941
00:35:44,810 --> 00:35:42,960
um have the siloing of information need

942
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:44,820
to know right that made a lot of sense

943
00:35:50,150 --> 00:35:47,760
back then but what begins as making

944
00:35:52,250 --> 00:35:50,160
sense soon is just something that is

945
00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:52,260
part of the culture you know I gave this

946
00:35:57,109 --> 00:35:55,200
analogy this week to some friends

947
00:35:58,670 --> 00:35:57,119
um this one uh this one mother was

948
00:36:01,069 --> 00:35:58,680
cooking her turkey for Thanksgiving

949
00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:01,079
which pains me as a vegetarian but let's

950
00:36:05,630 --> 00:36:03,599
just go with it so she's cooking this

951
00:36:06,890 --> 00:36:05,640
turkey and she would cut off the edges

952
00:36:08,990 --> 00:36:06,900
of the turkey before she put in the oven

953
00:36:10,130 --> 00:36:09,000
right yeah and so one of her kids says

954
00:36:12,530 --> 00:36:10,140
hey Mom why do you why do you cut the

955
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:12,540
edges off the turkey and the mom goes

956
00:36:16,370 --> 00:36:14,640
wow I'm not sure I guess just because

957
00:36:18,170 --> 00:36:16,380
that's what my mom did so she calls up

958
00:36:19,790 --> 00:36:18,180
her mom and says hey Mom why do you cut

959
00:36:20,930 --> 00:36:19,800
the edges off the turkey anyway she's

960
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:20,940
like well that's because that's what my

961
00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:22,560
mom did so let's call out great grandma

962
00:36:25,790 --> 00:36:24,720
and ask her that color up and says why

963
00:36:27,290 --> 00:36:25,800
do we cut off the edges of the turkey

964
00:36:28,089 --> 00:36:27,300
and she says well because we had a small

965
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:28,099
oven

966
00:36:33,410 --> 00:36:31,680
right so so the notion there is that so

967
00:36:34,609 --> 00:36:33,420
now these modern you know families have

968
00:36:35,690 --> 00:36:34,619
these massive ovens they're still

969
00:36:37,430 --> 00:36:35,700
cutting the edges off the turkey just

970
00:36:39,410 --> 00:36:37,440
because that's the culture right yeah

971
00:36:41,150 --> 00:36:39,420
it's just inherited it's not questioned

972
00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:41,160
there's this sense that what's come

973
00:36:45,290 --> 00:36:43,200
before you there must be good reasoning

974
00:36:46,910 --> 00:36:45,300
behind it right and I think that's

975
00:36:48,650 --> 00:36:46,920
probably what we're dealing with uh with

976
00:36:51,650 --> 00:36:48,660
the entrenchment in the military

977
00:36:54,230 --> 00:36:51,660
establishment right there's inertia

978
00:36:56,930 --> 00:36:54,240
there that is unavoidable and that

979
00:36:59,270 --> 00:36:56,940
that's true of um not just of the

980
00:37:01,790 --> 00:36:59,280
military uh scenario that that you

981
00:37:03,589 --> 00:37:01,800
reference but but of our our reality as

982
00:37:06,589 --> 00:37:03,599
well right we were born into a world

983
00:37:09,109 --> 00:37:06,599
that has inherited inertia from those

984
00:37:10,910 --> 00:37:09,119
who've come before us and we're always

985
00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:10,920
we're like swimming in that

986
00:37:15,950 --> 00:37:13,680
World from from day one you know we're

987
00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:15,960
navigating it and and as we're

988
00:37:19,130 --> 00:37:18,240
navigating it we're finding oh wait a

989
00:37:21,410 --> 00:37:19,140
minute like

990
00:37:23,810 --> 00:37:21,420
uh I've discovered this other thing here

991
00:37:25,130 --> 00:37:23,820
that has anyone seen this and everyone's

992
00:37:27,650 --> 00:37:25,140
like nah actually I've never seen that

993
00:37:29,630 --> 00:37:27,660
before uh and and it's but it's been

994
00:37:31,310 --> 00:37:29,640
there the whole time that they have been

995
00:37:34,130 --> 00:37:31,320
able to see it because they don't have

996
00:37:35,390 --> 00:37:34,140
that New Perspective and when you're you

997
00:37:38,450 --> 00:37:35,400
know sort of

998
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:38,460
thrust into that environment as a as an

999
00:37:43,910 --> 00:37:41,520
alien let's put it that way uh you don't

1000
00:37:45,890 --> 00:37:43,920
see the world the way that the residents

1001
00:37:48,470 --> 00:37:45,900
happen to see it you know you see it as

1002
00:37:51,530 --> 00:37:48,480
a foreigner and foreigners pick up on

1003
00:37:54,349 --> 00:37:51,540
things that that residents don't see but

1004
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:54,359
they by pointing those things out they

1005
00:37:58,310 --> 00:37:55,680
change the world

1006
00:37:59,930 --> 00:37:58,320
right so by recognizing that these

1007
00:38:03,230 --> 00:37:59,940
things are there and and drawing

1008
00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:03,240
attention to them you you reshape the

1009
00:38:07,490 --> 00:38:04,800
fabric of the world and then that

1010
00:38:10,010 --> 00:38:07,500
becomes a new world that those who are

1011
00:38:13,069 --> 00:38:10,020
born into it inherit and that process

1012
00:38:14,930 --> 00:38:13,079
continues at infinitum

1013
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:14,940
um and so with that thought I mean I

1014
00:38:18,170 --> 00:38:16,560
wonder if we could take a second here to

1015
00:38:21,710 --> 00:38:18,180
think go through the thought experiment

1016
00:38:25,130 --> 00:38:21,720
of you know let's say that uh

1017
00:38:26,569 --> 00:38:25,140
this takes a lot of traction in 2023 and

1018
00:38:27,950 --> 00:38:26,579
you're having a conversation with a

1019
00:38:29,410 --> 00:38:27,960
family member or whatever who's new to

1020
00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:29,420
this I mean

1021
00:38:34,250 --> 00:38:32,400
how long do you take between going yeah

1022
00:38:36,410 --> 00:38:34,260
like at CT like that's pretty cool and

1023
00:38:39,230 --> 00:38:36,420
then saying but it could also be you

1024
00:38:40,490 --> 00:38:39,240
know like how do you kind of responsibly

1025
00:38:42,349 --> 00:38:40,500
and I think you have to think about it

1026
00:38:45,349 --> 00:38:42,359
doing responsibly how do you responsibly

1027
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:45,359
kind of walk them through these other

1028
00:38:50,510 --> 00:38:48,480
scenarios of possibility

1029
00:38:52,190 --> 00:38:50,520
um all while all the while saying you

1030
00:38:55,250 --> 00:38:52,200
know but but I could be wrong you know

1031
00:38:57,829 --> 00:38:55,260
it could just really be E.T

1032
00:39:00,170 --> 00:38:57,839
um but it could also be that this you

1033
00:39:02,270 --> 00:39:00,180
know these other things and here's here

1034
00:39:04,130 --> 00:39:02,280
here is some evidence and some anecdote

1035
00:39:05,870 --> 00:39:04,140
to consider that point in those

1036
00:39:08,569 --> 00:39:05,880
directions so that we have to Grapple

1037
00:39:11,870 --> 00:39:08,579
with uh and also gets the question of

1038
00:39:14,930 --> 00:39:11,880
who has the core answers here who has

1039
00:39:16,430 --> 00:39:14,940
the best knowledge and I think that that

1040
00:39:18,530 --> 00:39:16,440
that's kind of a false assumption that

1041
00:39:21,290 --> 00:39:18,540
many people make When approaching this

1042
00:39:24,050 --> 00:39:21,300
topic that there is some sort of grand

1043
00:39:27,589 --> 00:39:24,060
you know Wise and Record Keeper in the

1044
00:39:29,569 --> 00:39:27,599
library of you know Uso lore who has

1045
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:29,579
access to all of the grand secrets and

1046
00:39:34,609 --> 00:39:32,400
they have the the truth and I think that

1047
00:39:37,069 --> 00:39:34,619
that's something that is a is a

1048
00:39:38,750 --> 00:39:37,079
fallacious way of thinking about this

1049
00:39:40,609 --> 00:39:38,760
issue

1050
00:39:42,170 --> 00:39:40,619
yeah for sure

1051
00:39:44,510 --> 00:39:42,180
um

1052
00:39:46,190 --> 00:39:44,520
you know I think part of the irony is

1053
00:39:49,069 --> 00:39:46,200
that a lot of experiencers are waiting

1054
00:39:50,930 --> 00:39:49,079
for public disclosure from some known

1055
00:39:53,210 --> 00:39:50,940
Authority right so they can feel

1056
00:39:54,589 --> 00:39:53,220
Justified and Vindicated around friends

1057
00:39:56,750 --> 00:39:54,599
and family and colleagues that maybe

1058
00:39:57,950 --> 00:39:56,760
made fun of them or thought they had

1059
00:40:01,010 --> 00:39:57,960
lost it

1060
00:40:02,870 --> 00:40:01,020
but of course even then a lot of their

1061
00:40:04,790 --> 00:40:02,880
experience with the actual phenomenon

1062
00:40:06,530 --> 00:40:04,800
will still be a far cry from what

1063
00:40:09,230 --> 00:40:06,540
actually gets disclosed right so maybe

1064
00:40:11,990 --> 00:40:09,240
there will be this discussion about

1065
00:40:14,569 --> 00:40:12,000
um you know the ET possibility maybe but

1066
00:40:16,310 --> 00:40:14,579
but it goes a lot further than that

1067
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:16,320
um I think for me and we were talking

1068
00:40:18,230 --> 00:40:17,280
about this before when on the Air

1069
00:40:19,970 --> 00:40:18,240
Tonight

1070
00:40:23,630 --> 00:40:19,980
just how difficult it is for people

1071
00:40:26,450 --> 00:40:23,640
again to to Really shift out of a

1072
00:40:30,109 --> 00:40:26,460
physicalist paradigm to actually say

1073
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:30,119
it's just not that Consciousness impacts

1074
00:40:34,490 --> 00:40:32,160
physical reality but that physical

1075
00:40:35,810 --> 00:40:34,500
reality doesn't really exist that that's

1076
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:35,820
just

1077
00:40:38,930 --> 00:40:38,400
a surface layer manifestation it's it's

1078
00:40:42,530 --> 00:40:38,940
um

1079
00:40:44,870 --> 00:40:42,540
it's Consciousness in excitation right

1080
00:40:47,569 --> 00:40:44,880
so uh the same way that you would say a

1081
00:40:49,609 --> 00:40:47,579
Whirlpool or a wheat or a wave is

1082
00:40:52,490 --> 00:40:49,619
fundamentally still water it's just

1083
00:40:54,109 --> 00:40:52,500
water and excitation right dancing water

1084
00:40:57,410 --> 00:40:54,119
that's the same notion here that

1085
00:40:59,270 --> 00:40:57,420
everything from this field that's

1086
00:41:01,970 --> 00:40:59,280
maintaining this sense of this granite

1087
00:41:04,010 --> 00:41:01,980
countertop to who you are to who I am

1088
00:41:06,710 --> 00:41:04,020
all of these are temporary

1089
00:41:09,950 --> 00:41:06,720
manifestations of Consciousness and you

1090
00:41:11,990 --> 00:41:09,960
can have a temporary localization of

1091
00:41:14,210 --> 00:41:12,000
some sort of what looks like an object

1092
00:41:16,430 --> 00:41:14,220
which you can call an object or a

1093
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:16,440
discrete individual person but really

1094
00:41:21,410 --> 00:41:18,960
that's not what they are that's just a

1095
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:21,420
dance of energy really is what's going

1096
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:23,520
on so

1097
00:41:27,770 --> 00:41:25,440
again we see lots of hints of this

1098
00:41:30,170 --> 00:41:27,780
already in quantum theory and as I've

1099
00:41:32,089 --> 00:41:30,180
talked about before there are physicists

1100
00:41:34,310 --> 00:41:32,099
like Nema arkane himmed who are doing

1101
00:41:36,050 --> 00:41:34,320
groundbreaking work because they've

1102
00:41:38,329 --> 00:41:36,060
recognized that even quantum theory

1103
00:41:40,970 --> 00:41:38,339
doesn't go far enough that you know

1104
00:41:42,410 --> 00:41:40,980
space time is fundamentally broken you

1105
00:41:44,690 --> 00:41:42,420
know as Donald Hoffman likes to quote

1106
00:41:46,190 --> 00:41:44,700
Ahmed he always says space-time is

1107
00:41:46,910 --> 00:41:46,200
doomed right and what he means by that

1108
00:41:49,370 --> 00:41:46,920
is

1109
00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:49,380
there's no way you can rescue that model

1110
00:41:54,109 --> 00:41:51,599
we already know enough to say that model

1111
00:41:55,250 --> 00:41:54,119
is not tenable it's not even just has a

1112
00:41:57,170 --> 00:41:55,260
few holes we've got to figure out which

1113
00:41:59,810 --> 00:41:57,180
is what most people tend to believe

1114
00:42:00,829 --> 00:41:59,820
right without without real evidence his

1115
00:42:02,150 --> 00:42:00,839
Guinea because like you talked about

1116
00:42:04,670 --> 00:42:02,160
it's just what they've inherited right

1117
00:42:07,790 --> 00:42:04,680
we assume that if it's this strong

1118
00:42:09,770 --> 00:42:07,800
there's so much ascribing and

1119
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:09,780
subscription I should say to this model

1120
00:42:13,730 --> 00:42:11,760
throughout our culture we assume there

1121
00:42:15,109 --> 00:42:13,740
must be good reason for it right and in

1122
00:42:16,730 --> 00:42:15,119
some ways there are we've talked about

1123
00:42:20,569 --> 00:42:16,740
this right how

1124
00:42:22,069 --> 00:42:20,579
science has been able to transform our

1125
00:42:23,870 --> 00:42:22,079
civilization right we've been able to

1126
00:42:25,730 --> 00:42:23,880
manipulate space-time in ways that we've

1127
00:42:28,910 --> 00:42:25,740
transformed our lives so tripled life

1128
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:28,920
expectancy and you know we've got now ai

1129
00:42:31,430 --> 00:42:30,240
systems that can do a bunch of stuff

1130
00:42:34,670 --> 00:42:31,440
that we used to have to do ourselves

1131
00:42:38,930 --> 00:42:34,680
before right that's just beginning right

1132
00:42:40,490 --> 00:42:38,940
but that's all uh modeling nature right

1133
00:42:42,290 --> 00:42:40,500
predicting what nature is going to do it

1134
00:42:43,849 --> 00:42:42,300
doesn't tell you what nature actually is

1135
00:42:46,730 --> 00:42:43,859
underlyingly and that's the question

1136
00:42:48,530 --> 00:42:46,740
here not just what is nature

1137
00:42:52,069 --> 00:42:48,540
underlyingly what is the fabric of

1138
00:42:54,170 --> 00:42:52,079
reality but how would a different answer

1139
00:42:55,790 --> 00:42:54,180
to that question completely change the

1140
00:42:57,710 --> 00:42:55,800
UFO phenomenon question and the

1141
00:42:59,450 --> 00:42:57,720
paranormality question and the life

1142
00:43:01,970 --> 00:42:59,460
after death question and The Apparition

1143
00:43:05,630 --> 00:43:01,980
question right in other words all these

1144
00:43:07,609 --> 00:43:05,640
were connected because they are

1145
00:43:09,470 --> 00:43:07,619
um you know extensions of this one

1146
00:43:13,130 --> 00:43:09,480
question what is the nature of reality

1147
00:43:15,710 --> 00:43:13,140
and I'm saying that remarkably we don't

1148
00:43:17,450 --> 00:43:15,720
need government disclosure on this all

1149
00:43:18,890 --> 00:43:17,460
the signs were already there that the

1150
00:43:20,870 --> 00:43:18,900
physicalist model that tells you that

1151
00:43:22,910 --> 00:43:20,880
there's a material world apart from your

1152
00:43:25,490 --> 00:43:22,920
Consciousness or even worse that your

1153
00:43:27,530 --> 00:43:25,500
Consciousness is actually a byproduct of

1154
00:43:29,750 --> 00:43:27,540
some of the excitation of you know

1155
00:43:32,270 --> 00:43:29,760
biochemical processes which when they

1156
00:43:34,190 --> 00:43:32,280
break down there's nothing to you we

1157
00:43:36,170 --> 00:43:34,200
know that that's not true we there's

1158
00:43:37,970 --> 00:43:36,180
there's evidence now suggesting that

1159
00:43:39,770 --> 00:43:37,980
again the physicalist model is

1160
00:43:41,450 --> 00:43:39,780
completely untenable you cannot rescue

1161
00:43:44,270 --> 00:43:41,460
it it's not going through a tough phase

1162
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:44,280
it just cannot be rescued and for those

1163
00:43:47,170 --> 00:43:45,359
who are really interested in learning

1164
00:43:49,609 --> 00:43:47,180
more about this I'd really recommend

1165
00:43:52,849 --> 00:43:49,619
Bernardo castrip and the Essentia

1166
00:43:55,849 --> 00:43:52,859
foundations analytic uh

1167
00:43:58,849 --> 00:43:55,859
idealism course where he breaks us down

1168
00:44:00,770 --> 00:43:58,859
really helps us understand how some of

1169
00:44:02,390 --> 00:44:00,780
what he calls our our basic intuitions

1170
00:44:04,670 --> 00:44:02,400
or what I would say are our

1171
00:44:06,410 --> 00:44:04,680
preconceptions or strong biases about

1172
00:44:09,349 --> 00:44:06,420
there being a physical world he

1173
00:44:11,809 --> 00:44:09,359
demonstrates methodically step by step

1174
00:44:12,589 --> 00:44:11,819
how it's just not the case

1175
00:44:15,950 --> 00:44:12,599
um

1176
00:44:17,870 --> 00:44:15,960
so you know you I think for me this is

1177
00:44:19,250 --> 00:44:17,880
why this is so fascinating because I'm

1178
00:44:21,410 --> 00:44:19,260
interested in what's happening in the

1179
00:44:24,170 --> 00:44:21,420
public sphere but I'm also aware that

1180
00:44:25,970 --> 00:44:24,180
it's come it's really that only gets you

1181
00:44:27,650 --> 00:44:25,980
halfway there right even if you get to

1182
00:44:30,589 --> 00:44:27,660
the the disclosure that there's other

1183
00:44:31,490 --> 00:44:30,599
beings and they have craft that seem to

1184
00:44:33,770 --> 00:44:31,500
be

1185
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:33,780
you know sort of physical but sort of

1186
00:44:36,530 --> 00:44:35,040
not you know we're not even sure what

1187
00:44:37,730 --> 00:44:36,540
that is

1188
00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:37,740
um and

1189
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:39,599
there's that but then there's this other

1190
00:44:43,130 --> 00:44:41,520
question which completely reframes the

1191
00:44:44,569 --> 00:44:43,140
first one so it's actually the deeper

1192
00:44:47,930 --> 00:44:44,579
and more important question which is

1193
00:44:49,849 --> 00:44:47,940
what is the fabric of reality

1194
00:44:52,430 --> 00:44:49,859
yeah and I you know I think about this

1195
00:44:57,170 --> 00:44:52,440
too from the perspective of

1196
00:45:04,490 --> 00:45:01,849
I think redeems The Human Experience and

1197
00:45:06,770 --> 00:45:04,500
I look around the world that I'm in now

1198
00:45:10,309 --> 00:45:06,780
and I see

1199
00:45:13,250 --> 00:45:10,319
this Poverty of

1200
00:45:15,109 --> 00:45:13,260
of understanding a Poverty of our of our

1201
00:45:17,690 --> 00:45:15,119
meaning making systems like the the

1202
00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:17,700
they're kind of broken

1203
00:45:22,430 --> 00:45:19,920
um they they worked for for a very long

1204
00:45:24,109 --> 00:45:22,440
time and and ordered the world and as

1205
00:45:27,410 --> 00:45:24,119
you pointed out earlier like have

1206
00:45:29,569 --> 00:45:27,420
resulted in great advancements and

1207
00:45:31,550 --> 00:45:29,579
you know I've helped us make sense of

1208
00:45:33,829 --> 00:45:31,560
you know who we are as a people and a

1209
00:45:35,329 --> 00:45:33,839
civilization and and that you know

1210
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:35,339
they've done a lot of damage too in the

1211
00:45:38,270 --> 00:45:37,200
process that's not well forget you have

1212
00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:38,280
to point that out

1213
00:45:44,030 --> 00:45:40,319
but we are at this place this juncture

1214
00:45:46,130 --> 00:45:44,040
in time now where

1215
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:46,140
those systems are failing you know

1216
00:45:50,990 --> 00:45:47,760
they're they're really failing they're

1217
00:45:54,170 --> 00:45:51,000
breaking falling apart at the seams and

1218
00:45:56,569 --> 00:45:54,180
uh and I think everyone

1219
00:45:59,390 --> 00:45:56,579
in most everyone that I talk to like

1220
00:46:02,510 --> 00:45:59,400
senses that feels that

1221
00:46:04,730 --> 00:46:02,520
deep in their core but

1222
00:46:07,130 --> 00:46:04,740
we don't have anything that

1223
00:46:09,950 --> 00:46:07,140
is there to replace it or we we're

1224
00:46:12,230 --> 00:46:09,960
certainly uh fumbling around in the dark

1225
00:46:14,329 --> 00:46:12,240
you know for something that may be a

1226
00:46:17,510 --> 00:46:14,339
better substitute

1227
00:46:20,569 --> 00:46:17,520
um and for me this topic

1228
00:46:22,970 --> 00:46:20,579
opens the door to that possibility

1229
00:46:24,410 --> 00:46:22,980
right so that's why I look forward to

1230
00:46:25,790 --> 00:46:24,420
this I said this in the last episode I

1231
00:46:28,069 --> 00:46:25,800
look forward to you know these greater

1232
00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:28,079
disclosures because they present these

1233
00:46:31,010 --> 00:46:29,280
opportunities for us to have

1234
00:46:33,650 --> 00:46:31,020
conversations

1235
00:46:37,069 --> 00:46:33,660
with the people that we care about that

1236
00:46:40,910 --> 00:46:39,109
change the way that they relate to

1237
00:46:43,490 --> 00:46:40,920
themselves change the way they relate to

1238
00:46:46,870 --> 00:46:43,500
the world like deepen

1239
00:46:49,430 --> 00:46:46,880
and enhance all of those experiences

1240
00:46:51,650 --> 00:46:49,440
instead of relegating experience you

1241
00:46:52,730 --> 00:46:51,660
know human experience as you said you

1242
00:46:54,770 --> 00:46:52,740
know these little sort of chemical

1243
00:46:58,690 --> 00:46:54,780
processes that basically at the end of

1244
00:47:01,370 --> 00:46:58,700
the day mean not nothing you know we we

1245
00:47:04,130 --> 00:47:01,380
instead Elevate them and say these are

1246
00:47:06,589 --> 00:47:04,140
meaningful this is what Consciousness

1247
00:47:10,670 --> 00:47:06,599
does and that's something we are all

1248
00:47:14,510 --> 00:47:10,680
partaking in and it is beautiful and uh

1249
00:47:17,390 --> 00:47:14,520
and messy and worth celebrating and

1250
00:47:18,770 --> 00:47:17,400
and those strange things that you may

1251
00:47:20,270 --> 00:47:18,780
have experienced or the strange things

1252
00:47:22,609 --> 00:47:20,280
that kind of guide you in your life

1253
00:47:25,130 --> 00:47:22,619
those have meaning they're not just some

1254
00:47:27,829 --> 00:47:25,140
kind of random you know chemical lure

1255
00:47:29,750 --> 00:47:27,839
that you know arises out of your gut

1256
00:47:32,089 --> 00:47:29,760
bacteria or something like that you know

1257
00:47:33,829 --> 00:47:32,099
there's a lot of deeper meaning here at

1258
00:47:36,650 --> 00:47:33,839
stake

1259
00:47:38,290 --> 00:47:36,660
yeah not to mention you know we we are

1260
00:47:40,609 --> 00:47:38,300
quick to ascribe all sorts of

1261
00:47:42,190 --> 00:47:40,619
technological sophistication to these

1262
00:47:44,569 --> 00:47:42,200
others right

1263
00:47:46,550 --> 00:47:44,579
and what they're coming with is very

1264
00:47:48,530 --> 00:47:46,560
often not a physicalist message right

1265
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:48,540
they're supposedly Beyond us many of

1266
00:47:52,130 --> 00:47:50,160
them and they're saying

1267
00:47:53,870 --> 00:47:52,140
you know you've lost your spiritual

1268
00:47:56,510 --> 00:47:53,880
connection to all that is you've

1269
00:47:59,930 --> 00:47:56,520
believed this illusion of Separation

1270
00:48:01,730 --> 00:47:59,940
right you've believed that you are a

1271
00:48:04,190 --> 00:48:01,740
finite being that is around for a few

1272
00:48:05,569 --> 00:48:04,200
decades and then you're out like a flame

1273
00:48:07,370 --> 00:48:05,579
it never really meant anything right

1274
00:48:09,349 --> 00:48:07,380
it's just a cosmic fluke that even came

1275
00:48:10,970 --> 00:48:09,359
into existence and they're they're not

1276
00:48:12,530 --> 00:48:10,980
saying that right

1277
00:48:14,809 --> 00:48:12,540
and what's interesting to me is I hear

1278
00:48:16,069 --> 00:48:14,819
some people saying uh well they could

1279
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:16,079
just be tricksters right that might be

1280
00:48:20,450 --> 00:48:17,520
just what they're saying to like fool us

1281
00:48:23,930 --> 00:48:20,460
and I'm like well why do you go there so

1282
00:48:26,750 --> 00:48:25,370
it may have something to do with what

1283
00:48:29,450 --> 00:48:26,760
I've talked about before this this

1284
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:29,460
integral notion that Ken Wilbur uh

1285
00:48:34,490 --> 00:48:31,200
really championed this notion that the

1286
00:48:36,349 --> 00:48:34,500
pre-trans fallacy that when you are

1287
00:48:37,910 --> 00:48:36,359
actually hearing someone espouse a

1288
00:48:39,890 --> 00:48:37,920
perspective that's beyond your level of

1289
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:39,900
Consciousness you will misinterpret it

1290
00:48:43,370 --> 00:48:41,280
as a lower

1291
00:48:45,349 --> 00:48:43,380
spiral on the Consciousness spiral right

1292
00:48:47,329 --> 00:48:45,359
it's like a lower level because it

1293
00:48:50,569 --> 00:48:47,339
sounds similar to you so you just place

1294
00:48:52,550 --> 00:48:50,579
it wherever you can right so

1295
00:48:54,109 --> 00:48:52,560
when they hear that sounds like a

1296
00:48:56,390 --> 00:48:54,119
spiritual message you know it sounds a

1297
00:48:58,309 --> 00:48:56,400
bit like Kumbaya to me so maybe these

1298
00:48:59,870 --> 00:48:58,319
are just but clearly they're beyond it

1299
00:49:01,550 --> 00:48:59,880
because they're technological so they

1300
00:49:03,650 --> 00:49:01,560
must be just fooling us right they must

1301
00:49:06,050 --> 00:49:03,660
be trying to dupe us like a cult leader

1302
00:49:07,609 --> 00:49:06,060
or something right so you see I think

1303
00:49:08,870 --> 00:49:07,619
people are not conscious that this is

1304
00:49:10,069 --> 00:49:08,880
what's going on in their mind but I

1305
00:49:12,050 --> 00:49:10,079
think this is what's actually happening

1306
00:49:14,030 --> 00:49:12,060
a lot of the time is that all these

1307
00:49:17,990 --> 00:49:14,040
steps are being made and they end up at

1308
00:49:20,089 --> 00:49:18,000
conclusion d uh when really many of

1309
00:49:22,130 --> 00:49:20,099
those steps in between you could call

1310
00:49:25,490 --> 00:49:22,140
into question because I think we have to

1311
00:49:27,109 --> 00:49:25,500
look at the face of it and say okay they

1312
00:49:29,270 --> 00:49:27,119
certainly seem to be more sophisticated

1313
00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:29,280
than us technologically and it doesn't

1314
00:49:34,069 --> 00:49:31,440
necessarily mean they are morally more

1315
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:34,079
advanced but it is interesting that so

1316
00:49:37,609 --> 00:49:36,000
often there's this Corollary

1317
00:49:39,410 --> 00:49:37,619
that they're also

1318
00:49:41,089 --> 00:49:39,420
more spiritual nature where they have

1319
00:49:43,190 --> 00:49:41,099
this kind of Oneness message they talk

1320
00:49:45,770 --> 00:49:43,200
about being connected to us we hear

1321
00:49:48,230 --> 00:49:45,780
about experiencers saying that the

1322
00:49:49,609 --> 00:49:48,240
illusion of Separation can dissolve to

1323
00:49:51,410 --> 00:49:49,619
the presence of these others and it was

1324
00:49:53,030 --> 00:49:51,420
kind of confusing and I'm going to say

1325
00:49:54,530 --> 00:49:53,040
discombobulating that's three times one

1326
00:49:56,770 --> 00:49:54,540
episode that's a group of Standards

1327
00:49:59,630 --> 00:49:56,780
right there

1328
00:50:01,490 --> 00:49:59,640
you know to the point where they they

1329
00:50:02,870 --> 00:50:01,500
they they they actually almost

1330
00:50:05,210 --> 00:50:02,880
experience it like a kind of death

1331
00:50:07,130 --> 00:50:05,220
because they're like who am I if I'm not

1332
00:50:08,750 --> 00:50:07,140
this bundle of things I thought I was

1333
00:50:10,849 --> 00:50:08,760
right if I can suddenly be something

1334
00:50:13,190 --> 00:50:10,859
else and still feel this sense of i

1335
00:50:14,809 --> 00:50:13,200
am-ness what does that say about the

1336
00:50:16,609 --> 00:50:14,819
nature of reality and the nature of my

1337
00:50:19,069 --> 00:50:16,619
own consciousness

1338
00:50:21,410 --> 00:50:19,079
yeah and you just to kind of take

1339
00:50:23,809 --> 00:50:21,420
something you said there too that hits

1340
00:50:26,410 --> 00:50:23,819
me a lot recently and that's how we

1341
00:50:30,410 --> 00:50:26,420
equate in our current time we equate

1342
00:50:33,770 --> 00:50:30,420
technology with moral superiority or you

1343
00:50:37,790 --> 00:50:33,780
know there are things in our world today

1344
00:50:40,510 --> 00:50:37,800
that we have adopted that we have uh

1345
00:50:44,750 --> 00:50:40,520
lashed on to as being valuable

1346
00:50:49,250 --> 00:50:44,760
meaningful uh that that signal to our

1347
00:50:52,430 --> 00:50:49,260
society that they are worthy and because

1348
00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:52,440
of that we attach to them

1349
00:50:56,930 --> 00:50:54,960
or whatever comes from them let's put it

1350
00:50:58,910 --> 00:50:56,940
that way whatever comes from them or

1351
00:51:04,010 --> 00:50:58,920
whatever is associated with with those

1352
00:51:06,170 --> 00:51:04,020
things we we Elevate as well and then

1353
00:51:07,970 --> 00:51:06,180
that's really a false you know

1354
00:51:10,430 --> 00:51:07,980
Association

1355
00:51:12,650 --> 00:51:10,440
um and

1356
00:51:14,690 --> 00:51:12,660
you know we really we we're in this

1357
00:51:16,490 --> 00:51:14,700
place I think that that pre-trans

1358
00:51:17,630 --> 00:51:16,500
fallacy is a great example you know

1359
00:51:19,490 --> 00:51:17,640
we're

1360
00:51:20,809 --> 00:51:19,500
we just don't have the language you know

1361
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:20,819
we we're

1362
00:51:26,510 --> 00:51:24,480
we're doing the best we can and uh we're

1363
00:51:27,950 --> 00:51:26,520
taking some leaps and and guests and and

1364
00:51:30,049 --> 00:51:27,960
understand our guessing and our

1365
00:51:31,970 --> 00:51:30,059
understanding of what this may be but

1366
00:51:35,150 --> 00:51:31,980
all we can do is compare it to what we

1367
00:51:37,069 --> 00:51:35,160
know and and we need to be very honest

1368
00:51:39,650 --> 00:51:37,079
with ourselves these comparisons are

1369
00:51:42,589 --> 00:51:39,660
probably poor

1370
00:51:45,170 --> 00:51:42,599
right right and I I think that

1371
00:51:46,069 --> 00:51:45,180
also uh makes me think about the fact

1372
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:46,079
that

1373
00:51:50,750 --> 00:51:48,960
we should be careful not to conflate

1374
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:50,760
the inability for us to comprehend

1375
00:51:57,109 --> 00:51:54,720
something with an intention of Deceit or

1376
00:51:59,150 --> 00:51:57,119
uh hiddenness from these others right

1377
00:52:01,130 --> 00:51:59,160
sometimes we assume they're one one to

1378
00:52:03,349 --> 00:52:01,140
one that listen you're not laying down

1379
00:52:04,849 --> 00:52:03,359
for me nice and square man so I feel

1380
00:52:07,010 --> 00:52:04,859
like there's deception going on here

1381
00:52:09,589 --> 00:52:07,020
right now I'll be the first one to say

1382
00:52:12,589 --> 00:52:09,599
that I think there are some in this

1383
00:52:14,270 --> 00:52:12,599
plethora right Myriad beings that are

1384
00:52:16,250 --> 00:52:14,280
out there

1385
00:52:17,569 --> 00:52:16,260
um across the Spectrum in terms of moral

1386
00:52:20,270 --> 00:52:17,579
development Consciousness development

1387
00:52:23,030 --> 00:52:20,280
there are some that do deceive and

1388
00:52:25,790 --> 00:52:23,040
deliberately uh lead astray but

1389
00:52:28,670 --> 00:52:25,800
sometimes it's just that it's not that

1390
00:52:30,230 --> 00:52:28,680
they're trying to be hidden from us or

1391
00:52:33,470 --> 00:52:30,240
make it more complicated than it could

1392
00:52:35,150 --> 00:52:33,480
be it's just that our notion is that

1393
00:52:37,430 --> 00:52:35,160
we're coming to the table with just

1394
00:52:39,589 --> 00:52:37,440
can't really they're not broad enough

1395
00:52:41,569 --> 00:52:39,599
deep enough to hold these realities and

1396
00:52:43,549 --> 00:52:41,579
so they end up looking disjointed we've

1397
00:52:45,230 --> 00:52:43,559
talked before or maybe not in this show

1398
00:52:48,049 --> 00:52:45,240
we have it in the community we've talked

1399
00:52:49,970 --> 00:52:48,059
about this notion that if you had like a

1400
00:52:52,609 --> 00:52:49,980
an object that existed in multiple

1401
00:52:54,609 --> 00:52:52,619
Dimensions beyond the three plus time in

1402
00:52:57,290 --> 00:52:54,619
this one and you saw it sort of

1403
00:52:58,970 --> 00:52:57,300
transforming into a 3D kind of object it

1404
00:53:00,589 --> 00:52:58,980
would look very very strange right it

1405
00:53:02,569 --> 00:53:00,599
might actually look nothing like what it

1406
00:53:04,790 --> 00:53:02,579
really looks like it is sixth or seventh

1407
00:53:07,849 --> 00:53:04,800
dimensional object right so so that kind

1408
00:53:10,430 --> 00:53:07,859
of notion right that whenever you have

1409
00:53:12,890 --> 00:53:10,440
to collapse a multi-dimensional object

1410
00:53:15,109 --> 00:53:12,900
into a an object with fewer Dimensions

1411
00:53:17,210 --> 00:53:15,119
you're going to corrupt it there's just

1412
00:53:19,910 --> 00:53:17,220
no way you can like literally there's no

1413
00:53:22,790 --> 00:53:19,920
way you can contain the same amount of

1414
00:53:25,309 --> 00:53:22,800
information so that's really worth

1415
00:53:28,069 --> 00:53:25,319
thinking about here that

1416
00:53:31,069 --> 00:53:28,079
that it's not just that they are hiding

1417
00:53:33,109 --> 00:53:31,079
or they're not coming clean like a lot

1418
00:53:34,910 --> 00:53:33,119
of people will say that right like

1419
00:53:36,710 --> 00:53:34,920
my biggest problem is that they're not

1420
00:53:37,970 --> 00:53:36,720
just coming forward and saying look this

1421
00:53:39,589 --> 00:53:37,980
is the deal this is where we're from

1422
00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:39,599
this is why we're here right that kind

1423
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:41,520
of thing and people a lot of people read

1424
00:53:47,710 --> 00:53:43,680
into that immediately

1425
00:53:50,210 --> 00:53:47,720
um you know false uh intentions or

1426
00:53:52,730 --> 00:53:50,220
deceit or you know

1427
00:53:54,290 --> 00:53:52,740
something just nefarious right like if

1428
00:53:55,609 --> 00:53:54,300
you don't tell me I'm going to be I'm

1429
00:53:58,190 --> 00:53:55,619
going to question that but of course

1430
00:53:59,990 --> 00:53:58,200
what we're doing there is we're basing

1431
00:54:02,930 --> 00:54:00,000
that on our Human Experience right and

1432
00:54:05,569 --> 00:54:02,940
we forget that we are the same evolved

1433
00:54:07,250 --> 00:54:05,579
species we we share a field of mentation

1434
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:07,260
we share an evolutionary process

1435
00:54:10,910 --> 00:54:09,359
therefore we see a lot of things in the

1436
00:54:13,730 --> 00:54:10,920
same way we can have this conversation

1437
00:54:16,250 --> 00:54:13,740
as you pointed out even going a century

1438
00:54:17,510 --> 00:54:16,260
or two forward in our own species would

1439
00:54:20,049 --> 00:54:17,520
make some conversations almost

1440
00:54:23,450 --> 00:54:20,059
impossible right we're talking about

1441
00:54:25,250 --> 00:54:23,460
these others who may be

1442
00:54:26,750 --> 00:54:25,260
having a completely different experience

1443
00:54:29,930 --> 00:54:26,760
of space-time than us which again space

1444
00:54:32,089 --> 00:54:29,940
time is only a a temporary and partial

1445
00:54:35,030 --> 00:54:32,099
construct right it's a construct it's

1446
00:54:37,010 --> 00:54:35,040
not the base reality so this is again

1447
00:54:38,770 --> 00:54:37,020
you can see how we get here all the time

1448
00:54:41,630 --> 00:54:38,780
on this show because

1449
00:54:43,250 --> 00:54:41,640
these things I hear banted about in

1450
00:54:44,750 --> 00:54:43,260
social media and what not about well I

1451
00:54:47,089 --> 00:54:44,760
think this because of this and oh look

1452
00:54:49,549 --> 00:54:47,099
at this here and I'm like there's so

1453
00:54:51,890 --> 00:54:49,559
many assumptions brought to the table uh

1454
00:54:53,809 --> 00:54:51,900
about how much we feel like we know

1455
00:54:55,190 --> 00:54:53,819
right so there's this this adage of

1456
00:54:56,930 --> 00:54:55,200
saying you know

1457
00:54:58,250 --> 00:54:56,940
there's things you know things you don't

1458
00:55:01,130 --> 00:54:58,260
know and things you don't know that you

1459
00:55:04,430 --> 00:55:01,140
don't know right and that third category

1460
00:55:06,650 --> 00:55:04,440
is really in play here I think and uh

1461
00:55:08,270 --> 00:55:06,660
that's why it's interesting to me that

1462
00:55:11,510 --> 00:55:08,280
people say sometimes

1463
00:55:13,609 --> 00:55:11,520
these others seem to want to change our

1464
00:55:15,470 --> 00:55:13,619
view of reality now that may be true

1465
00:55:16,490 --> 00:55:15,480
especially when it comes to things like

1466
00:55:18,109 --> 00:55:16,500
you know the way we're treating the

1467
00:55:20,089 --> 00:55:18,119
Earth and each other we need some sort

1468
00:55:22,790 --> 00:55:20,099
of evolution of consciousness

1469
00:55:24,710 --> 00:55:22,800
to survive maybe but sometimes I think

1470
00:55:26,870 --> 00:55:24,720
it's just

1471
00:55:28,069 --> 00:55:26,880
you know par for the course we interact

1472
00:55:29,630 --> 00:55:28,079
with these beings like you talked about

1473
00:55:31,210 --> 00:55:29,640
you live on the coast and you experience

1474
00:55:34,069 --> 00:55:31,220
people coming from different cultures

1475
00:55:35,990 --> 00:55:34,079
you're going to be forced to deal with

1476
00:55:38,630 --> 00:55:36,000
different conceptions of the world

1477
00:55:40,670 --> 00:55:38,640
then uh than someone who lives maybe in

1478
00:55:42,650 --> 00:55:40,680
the midwest right you know it's just

1479
00:55:44,210 --> 00:55:42,660
that's just the nature of the Beast so

1480
00:55:46,069 --> 00:55:44,220
this may just be par for the course that

1481
00:55:48,950 --> 00:55:46,079
what we encounter these beings are so

1482
00:55:51,650 --> 00:55:48,960
different than us it inevitably forces

1483
00:55:54,650 --> 00:55:51,660
us to reckon with reality

1484
00:55:58,970 --> 00:55:54,660
and let's not forget that our we have a

1485
00:56:01,849 --> 00:55:58,980
temptation as well to idolize uh that

1486
00:56:03,650 --> 00:56:01,859
which exceeds us

1487
00:56:07,190 --> 00:56:03,660
um we have a long history of that human

1488
00:56:09,230 --> 00:56:07,200
wool civilizations and societies uh to

1489
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:09,240
put onto a pedestal

1490
00:56:13,130 --> 00:56:12,240
those those other

1491
00:56:17,569 --> 00:56:13,140
um

1492
00:56:19,670 --> 00:56:17,579
have better technology or whatever and

1493
00:56:23,089 --> 00:56:19,680
say well you know this is the aspiration

1494
00:56:25,309 --> 00:56:23,099
this is what we should all change our

1495
00:56:27,950 --> 00:56:25,319
lives and you know cargo cult ourselves

1496
00:56:31,010 --> 00:56:27,960
into adopting and I think that's pretty

1497
00:56:32,990 --> 00:56:31,020
rampant in in our community as well as

1498
00:56:36,470 --> 00:56:33,000
this um you know you're hanging your

1499
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:36,480
hopes and dreams on these others uh

1500
00:56:41,690 --> 00:56:38,400
because you you're looking in some ways

1501
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:41,700
for a savior and and I think you're what

1502
00:56:47,270 --> 00:56:44,160
you're losing there is the core truth

1503
00:56:49,549 --> 00:56:47,280
that that they are on the same Journey

1504
00:56:52,010 --> 00:56:49,559
that we are on right then that that

1505
00:56:53,930 --> 00:56:52,020
they're not uh

1506
00:56:55,910 --> 00:56:53,940
we're all part of the same story here

1507
00:56:58,490 --> 00:56:55,920
and um

1508
00:57:01,490 --> 00:56:58,500
and that that that's a fundamental truth

1509
00:57:03,589 --> 00:57:01,500
that when you I think sit with it and

1510
00:57:05,990 --> 00:57:03,599
and adopt it grasp it like it does

1511
00:57:07,970 --> 00:57:06,000
change everything else about how you

1512
00:57:10,309 --> 00:57:07,980
look at this subject

1513
00:57:12,430 --> 00:57:10,319
um hopefully it it provides you with a

1514
00:57:15,530 --> 00:57:12,440
little bit of um

1515
00:57:20,210 --> 00:57:15,540
you know sort of appreciation more solid

1516
00:57:22,130 --> 00:57:20,220
footing or for whatever this may be and

1517
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:22,140
um I think that's pretty important as we

1518
00:57:28,670 --> 00:57:26,640
kind of move into these new Waters ahead

1519
00:57:30,890 --> 00:57:28,680
because we're gonna we're gonna you know

1520
00:57:32,450 --> 00:57:30,900
presumably uh and I'm I you know I could

1521
00:57:34,309 --> 00:57:32,460
be wrong we're gonna get get some more

1522
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:34,319
we're gonna get some more nuggets of

1523
00:57:39,530 --> 00:57:37,200
Truth here from whatever you know

1524
00:57:41,450 --> 00:57:39,540
happens to be the the case that our

1525
00:57:44,750 --> 00:57:41,460
government knows and it's going to be

1526
00:57:47,870 --> 00:57:44,760
very tempting for us to kind of spin out

1527
00:57:50,049 --> 00:57:47,880
from those things like these

1528
00:57:55,490 --> 00:57:53,030
Fantastical hopes and dream you know

1529
00:57:56,930 --> 00:57:55,500
kind of uh really going to latch on to

1530
00:57:59,270 --> 00:57:56,940
some of that or it would be very

1531
00:58:01,190 --> 00:57:59,280
tempting to do so and I think we have to

1532
00:58:02,870 --> 00:58:01,200
kind of be careful with that and and

1533
00:58:06,589 --> 00:58:02,880
really start thinking more deeply about

1534
00:58:08,750 --> 00:58:06,599
well what does this really mean and uh

1535
00:58:12,049 --> 00:58:08,760
how are we connected to them and they to

1536
00:58:14,809 --> 00:58:12,059
us and what is this acknowledgment

1537
00:58:17,690 --> 00:58:14,819
of this presence into this reality what

1538
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:17,700
does it do for the way that that we live

1539
00:58:23,510 --> 00:58:19,680
our lives what does it do for for the

1540
00:58:26,630 --> 00:58:23,520
way that they interact with us uh and

1541
00:58:29,109 --> 00:58:26,640
and as our society is our world ready

1542
00:58:32,270 --> 00:58:29,119
for that new way of interaction

1543
00:58:34,670 --> 00:58:32,280
because that's that's a huge part of

1544
00:58:35,510 --> 00:58:34,680
this right I mean as as civilizations in

1545
00:58:39,890 --> 00:58:35,520
the past

1546
00:58:41,569 --> 00:58:39,900
you know who uh you know were on the

1547
00:58:43,670 --> 00:58:41,579
North American continent you know had no

1548
00:58:46,490 --> 00:58:43,680
exposure to you know European

1549
00:58:49,670 --> 00:58:46,500
civilization like it radically changed

1550
00:58:52,430 --> 00:58:49,680
their world in many ways for the worse

1551
00:58:54,890 --> 00:58:52,440
um so we're talking about something that

1552
00:58:57,950 --> 00:58:54,900
could be uh as tectonically significant

1553
00:59:00,349 --> 00:58:57,960
as that if not more so uh so huge

1554
00:59:03,410 --> 00:59:00,359
ramifications there and and a reminder

1555
00:59:07,010 --> 00:59:03,420
that we have to be uh

1556
00:59:10,130 --> 00:59:07,020
you know cautious wise patient uh

1557
00:59:14,390 --> 00:59:10,140
thoughtful and and not be you know Brash

1558
00:59:16,190 --> 00:59:14,400
or quick to uh draw conclusions

1559
00:59:18,770 --> 00:59:16,200
yeah and I was thinking

1560
00:59:21,109 --> 00:59:18,780
in terms also of

1561
00:59:23,870 --> 00:59:21,119
you know you talked about this sense

1562
00:59:26,569 --> 00:59:23,880
that we kind of idolize uh technological

1563
00:59:27,589 --> 00:59:26,579
sophistication and understandably so I

1564
00:59:29,990 --> 00:59:27,599
mean we

1565
00:59:32,089 --> 00:59:30,000
Western Civilization has has changed

1566
00:59:33,710 --> 00:59:32,099
fundamentally changed our relationship

1567
00:59:36,170 --> 00:59:33,720
with reality

1568
00:59:39,109 --> 00:59:36,180
and so sort of de facto we've sort of

1569
00:59:40,549 --> 00:59:39,119
said well scientists Bravo you know you

1570
00:59:44,329 --> 00:59:40,559
triple their lifespans you gave us

1571
00:59:46,490 --> 00:59:44,339
microwaves and cell phones so you become

1572
00:59:49,130 --> 00:59:46,500
the new de facto Priests of the

1573
00:59:50,450 --> 00:59:49,140
civilization which you say goes right in

1574
00:59:55,309 --> 00:59:50,460
a very similar way to the Catholic

1575
00:59:59,089 --> 00:59:57,650
but what's interesting there and this is

1576
01:00:01,609 --> 00:59:59,099
where you know my background and

1577
01:00:03,770 --> 01:00:01,619
integral Theory again helps because in

1578
01:00:06,530 --> 01:00:03,780
integral Theory and sort of any kind of

1579
01:00:07,849 --> 01:00:06,540
second tier level of Consciousness what

1580
01:00:09,530 --> 01:00:07,859
you get in second tier that you don't

1581
01:00:11,630 --> 01:00:09,540
get in first here

1582
01:00:13,970 --> 01:00:11,640
is and it's is recognized as a second

1583
01:00:16,130 --> 01:00:13,980
tier like a completely new way because

1584
01:00:17,630 --> 01:00:16,140
it's there's one fundamental shift from

1585
01:00:19,549 --> 01:00:17,640
the earlier stages right so you have

1586
01:00:20,870 --> 01:00:19,559
this earlier group of stages that are

1587
01:00:23,510 --> 01:00:20,880
kind of all grouped together into this

1588
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:23,520
one meta category of tier first tier and

1589
01:00:28,010 --> 01:00:25,200
the reason they are is because they tend

1590
01:00:30,230 --> 01:00:28,020
to each time they they roll out they

1591
01:00:32,809 --> 01:00:30,240
tend to reject the previous one they say

1592
01:00:34,609 --> 01:00:32,819
that was wrong this is the way to see

1593
01:00:36,470 --> 01:00:34,619
reality and that that holds sway for a

1594
01:00:39,530 --> 01:00:36,480
while until it begins to develop cracks

1595
01:00:41,630 --> 01:00:39,540
then it gives birth to a new uh

1596
01:00:43,730 --> 01:00:41,640
worldview stage of Consciousness and

1597
01:00:45,410 --> 01:00:43,740
those people say we reject the previous

1598
01:00:47,329 --> 01:00:45,420
one this is the way to go and that keeps

1599
01:00:50,270 --> 01:00:47,339
happening when you get to second tier

1600
01:00:51,890 --> 01:00:50,280
what changes is there's this recognition

1601
01:00:55,309 --> 01:00:51,900
that there's truth in each of those

1602
01:00:57,890 --> 01:00:55,319
previous stages partial truth albeit but

1603
01:00:59,930 --> 01:00:57,900
nevertheless truth and that you could

1604
01:01:01,910 --> 01:00:59,940
argue as can Wilbur knows that any

1605
01:01:04,309 --> 01:01:01,920
civilization that's existed across the

1606
01:01:06,109 --> 01:01:04,319
face of the Earth over time that had a

1607
01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:06,119
certain view of reality that they worked

1608
01:01:09,950 --> 01:01:07,920
with for a while there's probably some

1609
01:01:11,750 --> 01:01:09,960
validity there because they would have

1610
01:01:14,210 --> 01:01:11,760
stuck with it if it didn't hold some

1611
01:01:16,849 --> 01:01:14,220
level of Representative representational

1612
01:01:18,170 --> 01:01:16,859
truth to the underlying construct

1613
01:01:20,569 --> 01:01:18,180
and so what's interesting when you think

1614
01:01:23,329 --> 01:01:20,579
about that is that in some ways for like

1615
01:01:24,829 --> 01:01:23,339
a shamanic culture this disclosure might

1616
01:01:26,690 --> 01:01:24,839
not be such a big deal they'll be like

1617
01:01:28,430 --> 01:01:26,700
well yeah we we do with these beings

1618
01:01:31,730 --> 01:01:28,440
like every night when the shaman goes

1619
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:31,740
goes out to you know find out where the

1620
01:01:35,270 --> 01:01:33,119
next Harvest is going to be or whatever

1621
01:01:37,130 --> 01:01:35,280
you know or you know what so-and-so

1622
01:01:38,510 --> 01:01:37,140
should do for you know where they should

1623
01:01:40,370 --> 01:01:38,520
go live or something whatever family

1624
01:01:42,589 --> 01:01:40,380
comes to the shaman and says we'd like

1625
01:01:45,049 --> 01:01:42,599
to know this or you know the tribe says

1626
01:01:46,970 --> 01:01:45,059
we in the past we need to know where the

1627
01:01:49,250 --> 01:01:46,980
food's going to be next season this is

1628
01:01:50,930 --> 01:01:49,260
like a life or death situation right so

1629
01:01:53,089 --> 01:01:50,940
this is not just again to the

1630
01:01:54,650 --> 01:01:53,099
physicalists out there who are kind of

1631
01:01:56,690 --> 01:01:54,660
worship our way of seeing the world this

1632
01:01:58,730 --> 01:01:56,700
is not just people going in you know

1633
01:02:02,210 --> 01:01:58,740
taking a bunch of Ayahuasca and making

1634
01:02:06,230 --> 01:02:02,220
some stuff up like their survival is a

1635
01:02:07,849 --> 01:02:06,240
tribe often uh hinged on the shaman

1636
01:02:10,970 --> 01:02:07,859
getting real information from these

1637
01:02:13,309 --> 01:02:10,980
otherworldly beings right right and so

1638
01:02:14,809 --> 01:02:13,319
for them they go oh yeah I mean of

1639
01:02:16,370 --> 01:02:14,819
course I remember even

1640
01:02:18,349 --> 01:02:16,380
um Ross Coulter talked about this like

1641
01:02:22,069 --> 01:02:18,359
going in speaking with indigenous

1642
01:02:23,329 --> 01:02:22,079
peoples in Australia and them kind of

1643
01:02:24,650 --> 01:02:23,339
laughing and say yeah you white people

1644
01:02:25,970 --> 01:02:24,660
you know you act like this is a new

1645
01:02:27,589 --> 01:02:25,980
thing and it's such a big deal we've

1646
01:02:29,809 --> 01:02:27,599
been talking with these beings you know

1647
01:02:31,370 --> 01:02:29,819
since time immoral kind of thing

1648
01:02:33,349 --> 01:02:31,380
so

1649
01:02:35,329 --> 01:02:33,359
it just goes to show that is not to say

1650
01:02:37,190 --> 01:02:35,339
that our technological advancement isn't

1651
01:02:39,049 --> 01:02:37,200
important and as hasn't helped it has

1652
01:02:41,510 --> 01:02:39,059
again it's a both and here not an either

1653
01:02:43,609 --> 01:02:41,520
or the goal is not to just all move back

1654
01:02:46,430 --> 01:02:43,619
to a shamanic culture we can recognize

1655
01:02:48,410 --> 01:02:46,440
some of the the gains we've had but also

1656
01:02:51,950 --> 01:02:48,420
be honest about what we've lost you know

1657
01:02:53,990 --> 01:02:51,960
what in in our now flat Landing of

1658
01:02:55,849 --> 01:02:54,000
reality where we focus on the surface

1659
01:02:57,349 --> 01:02:55,859
layer where we manipulate nature as we

1660
01:02:59,390 --> 01:02:57,359
perceive it in the space-time construct

1661
01:03:01,490 --> 01:02:59,400
we've been very very successful but one

1662
01:03:03,829 --> 01:03:01,500
of the casualties is we assume

1663
01:03:07,010 --> 01:03:03,839
everything else is you know reducible to

1664
01:03:09,170 --> 01:03:07,020
subjective mush it's not really real uh

1665
01:03:10,250 --> 01:03:09,180
and yet we have cases like in shamanic

1666
01:03:12,289 --> 01:03:10,260
cultures where they're getting real

1667
01:03:15,410 --> 01:03:12,299
information from supposedly these

1668
01:03:18,289 --> 01:03:15,420
imaginary Realms so that says something

1669
01:03:20,329 --> 01:03:18,299
about you know what the future holds in

1670
01:03:21,589 --> 01:03:20,339
terms of bringing together these

1671
01:03:24,109 --> 01:03:21,599
different views hopefully in something

1672
01:03:25,789 --> 01:03:24,119
that's synergistic and and maybe moves

1673
01:03:28,010 --> 01:03:25,799
the whole thing forward

1674
01:03:28,970 --> 01:03:28,020
well don't you think that it's going to

1675
01:03:31,549 --> 01:03:28,980
be

1676
01:03:33,770 --> 01:03:31,559
a pretty protracted process right

1677
01:03:34,970 --> 01:03:33,780
because I I think that um I think of

1678
01:03:35,990 --> 01:03:34,980
everything you just said there and I

1679
01:03:39,410 --> 01:03:36,000
think about

1680
01:03:41,089 --> 01:03:39,420
our government you know maybe pulling

1681
01:03:43,430 --> 01:03:41,099
them kicking and streaming and screaming

1682
01:03:45,829 --> 01:03:43,440
you know in front of the podium to say

1683
01:03:50,089 --> 01:03:45,839
whatever they know but but at that point

1684
01:03:55,549 --> 01:03:53,150
the mechanisms and the uh the the

1685
01:03:59,510 --> 01:03:55,559
the institutions of our world are going

1686
01:04:01,670 --> 01:03:59,520
to be focused on that and and apply the

1687
01:04:04,670 --> 01:04:01,680
skills that they have to this problem

1688
01:04:06,770 --> 01:04:04,680
right to this new to this new reality

1689
01:04:08,990 --> 01:04:06,780
and so it's it's it's all of that that

1690
01:04:11,089 --> 01:04:09,000
stuff is physical it's like all of our

1691
01:04:12,829 --> 01:04:11,099
academic institutions you know all of

1692
01:04:15,230 --> 01:04:12,839
our science like it's just gonna throw

1693
01:04:17,630 --> 01:04:15,240
itself at this and go okay well you know

1694
01:04:19,609 --> 01:04:17,640
what's at the core of this and how do we

1695
01:04:21,829 --> 01:04:19,619
you know figure out what the technology

1696
01:04:24,589 --> 01:04:21,839
is or you know all the things that you

1697
01:04:26,150 --> 01:04:24,599
know that come along with that and if

1698
01:04:28,250 --> 01:04:26,160
that's true I feel like we've got a long

1699
01:04:30,170 --> 01:04:28,260
way to go you know from from that

1700
01:04:32,630 --> 01:04:30,180
approach in perspective to what we're

1701
01:04:36,349 --> 01:04:32,640
talking about here uh that there's kind

1702
01:04:38,210 --> 01:04:36,359
of a chasm in a way that it's not that

1703
01:04:39,170 --> 01:04:38,220
it can't be crossed but there are so

1704
01:04:42,349 --> 01:04:39,180
many

1705
01:04:44,690 --> 01:04:42,359
steps that must be you know put in place

1706
01:04:47,630 --> 01:04:44,700
to get from one side to the other you

1707
01:04:51,650 --> 01:04:47,640
know do you see room here for uh come

1708
01:04:53,510 --> 01:04:51,660
some radical leaps in our understanding

1709
01:04:55,370 --> 01:04:53,520
um you know maybe

1710
01:04:56,569 --> 01:04:55,380
because these systems we've talked about

1711
01:04:58,670 --> 01:04:56,579
before

1712
01:05:00,049 --> 01:04:58,680
you know they already have the these

1713
01:05:01,309 --> 01:05:00,059
cracks they're they're already kind of

1714
01:05:03,049 --> 01:05:01,319
falling apart they're already failing

1715
01:05:05,390 --> 01:05:03,059
and describing what we what we're

1716
01:05:07,190 --> 01:05:05,400
studying now maybe they will those

1717
01:05:09,349 --> 01:05:07,200
cracks just become more apparent and

1718
01:05:11,089 --> 01:05:09,359
then and then we're we're kind of left

1719
01:05:12,530 --> 01:05:11,099
with no other choice but to adopt some

1720
01:05:14,630 --> 01:05:12,540
newer models that may make sense of

1721
01:05:18,049 --> 01:05:14,640
things but do you do you see room here

1722
01:05:20,690 --> 01:05:18,059
for some uh in a significant for

1723
01:05:23,089 --> 01:05:20,700
momentum and not just like oh well

1724
01:05:24,650 --> 01:05:23,099
here's a here's a panel we're going to

1725
01:05:27,530 --> 01:05:24,660
study this and try to figure out you

1726
01:05:29,930 --> 01:05:27,540
know how we can you know turn this uh

1727
01:05:32,329 --> 01:05:29,940
alloy that we think it's in into some

1728
01:05:35,230 --> 01:05:32,339
other thing that we can do to you know

1729
01:05:38,990 --> 01:05:35,240
create a Hypersonic you know

1730
01:05:40,789 --> 01:05:39,000
jetliner what what do you think here

1731
01:05:42,530 --> 01:05:40,799
well I mean I think your pointing at

1732
01:05:44,150 --> 01:05:42,540
something really significant here and

1733
01:05:47,089 --> 01:05:44,160
that is that part of the reason why

1734
01:05:49,250 --> 01:05:47,099
disclosure is so complex and so

1735
01:05:51,530 --> 01:05:49,260
you know stutter step in terms of actual

1736
01:05:53,870 --> 01:05:51,540
actually moving forward is that it's

1737
01:05:56,809 --> 01:05:53,880
because so much is on the table like and

1738
01:05:59,990 --> 01:05:56,819
and most journalists most politicians

1739
01:06:01,910 --> 01:06:00,000
you know Joe public out there

1740
01:06:03,950 --> 01:06:01,920
doesn't believe that this is a

1741
01:06:05,809 --> 01:06:03,960
conversation about reality right they

1742
01:06:07,730 --> 01:06:05,819
they're like well I've got my religion

1743
01:06:09,890 --> 01:06:07,740
or maybe they're an atheist they've

1744
01:06:12,770 --> 01:06:09,900
determined everything's just you know a

1745
01:06:16,130 --> 01:06:12,780
biochemical soup and nothing more

1746
01:06:18,470 --> 01:06:16,140
um and in both of those groups will be

1747
01:06:21,470 --> 01:06:18,480
confounded by this information right and

1748
01:06:24,890 --> 01:06:21,480
so when you think about how many people

1749
01:06:27,230 --> 01:06:24,900
in our society will not be really

1750
01:06:29,870 --> 01:06:27,240
challenged by the implications here it's

1751
01:06:31,789 --> 01:06:29,880
a small number right and so I think

1752
01:06:33,650 --> 01:06:31,799
that's really what's going on here is is

1753
01:06:36,170 --> 01:06:33,660
when people say why are we not seeing

1754
01:06:38,390 --> 01:06:36,180
more you know pick up from the

1755
01:06:39,710 --> 01:06:38,400
journalists of the world right and I

1756
01:06:42,049 --> 01:06:39,720
think it's a valid question that's why I

1757
01:06:43,910 --> 01:06:42,059
brought up that that comment uh you know

1758
01:06:45,349 --> 01:06:43,920
or what Chris melon's been up to like

1759
01:06:47,569 --> 01:06:45,359
he's he's trying to do their job for

1760
01:06:49,910 --> 01:06:47,579
them and say you know

1761
01:06:52,849 --> 01:06:49,920
don't be fooled I mean it just like a

1762
01:06:55,069 --> 01:06:52,859
base level of journalistic integrity and

1763
01:06:56,150 --> 01:06:55,079
commitment would show you that what

1764
01:06:57,349 --> 01:06:56,160
they're telling you and what they're

1765
01:06:59,270 --> 01:06:57,359
actually doing are two different things

1766
01:07:00,770 --> 01:06:59,280
right it's a bait and switch here and

1767
01:07:01,970 --> 01:07:00,780
it's the oldest game in the book and why

1768
01:07:04,010 --> 01:07:01,980
are you falling for it and I think part

1769
01:07:06,529 --> 01:07:04,020
of the reason they're falling for it is

1770
01:07:08,150 --> 01:07:06,539
because underlyingly they don't want to

1771
01:07:10,190 --> 01:07:08,160
really

1772
01:07:12,230 --> 01:07:10,200
wrestle with this nor do they think they

1773
01:07:14,569 --> 01:07:12,240
even have to again so is that it's that

1774
01:07:17,210 --> 01:07:14,579
hubris again it's that arrogance that

1775
01:07:21,650 --> 01:07:17,220
come on seriously we've got to have like

1776
01:07:23,630 --> 01:07:21,660
98 99 of it down by now right so so if

1777
01:07:25,250 --> 01:07:23,640
ETS are in it then surely they're just

1778
01:07:27,650 --> 01:07:25,260
in that one percent range we haven't

1779
01:07:29,329 --> 01:07:27,660
quite got narrowed down and my

1780
01:07:31,490 --> 01:07:29,339
assumptions say you know we would see

1781
01:07:34,910 --> 01:07:31,500
signs of ships in the sky we would see

1782
01:07:36,470 --> 01:07:34,920
you know signs of trajectories coming in

1783
01:07:38,870 --> 01:07:36,480
from Jupiter we're not seeing that kind

1784
01:07:40,910 --> 01:07:38,880
of thing so in other words their notion

1785
01:07:42,650 --> 01:07:40,920
of what an ET civilization would look

1786
01:07:44,690 --> 01:07:42,660
like an ET visitation would look like

1787
01:07:46,910 --> 01:07:44,700
you're sort of like next level beyond

1788
01:07:48,589 --> 01:07:46,920
our technology right that's right but as

1789
01:07:50,870 --> 01:07:48,599
you said you get out a few hundred years

1790
01:07:52,130 --> 01:07:50,880
and even human existence would look

1791
01:07:54,349 --> 01:07:52,140
completely different

1792
01:07:56,089 --> 01:07:54,359
and yet that's all that a lot of

1793
01:07:57,470 --> 01:07:56,099
journalists and politicians and the

1794
01:07:59,450 --> 01:07:57,480
average person is willing to really

1795
01:08:01,069 --> 01:07:59,460
conceive of here is like Okay so let's

1796
01:08:02,809 --> 01:08:01,079
picture an at species that's like a

1797
01:08:04,069 --> 01:08:02,819
couple hundred years ahead they don't

1798
01:08:05,809 --> 01:08:04,079
say that to themselves but that's

1799
01:08:07,910 --> 01:08:05,819
effectively what they're doing right and

1800
01:08:10,190 --> 01:08:07,920
they say look I don't see the evidence

1801
01:08:11,270 --> 01:08:10,200
when you and I know that if we went back

1802
01:08:13,609 --> 01:08:11,280
to a

1803
01:08:16,070 --> 01:08:13,619
a pre-industrial or a even older

1804
01:08:18,289 --> 01:08:16,080
civilization you'll be very simple for

1805
01:08:20,269 --> 01:08:18,299
us to really really confuse them right

1806
01:08:22,309 --> 01:08:20,279
because

1807
01:08:24,829 --> 01:08:22,319
um you know you put on this this week I

1808
01:08:27,349 --> 01:08:24,839
was using this Oculus headset right and

1809
01:08:29,150 --> 01:08:27,359
it was this amazing experience and you

1810
01:08:30,709 --> 01:08:29,160
know you move around and of course as

1811
01:08:33,530 --> 01:08:30,719
you move the world that you're

1812
01:08:35,870 --> 01:08:33,540
perceiving moves around you so you were

1813
01:08:37,910 --> 01:08:35,880
to do that to someone like why you knock

1814
01:08:39,289 --> 01:08:37,920
them out and you put an Oculus headset

1815
01:08:40,130 --> 01:08:39,299
without them realizing they'd wake up

1816
01:08:42,950 --> 01:08:40,140
and they'd think they're in a different

1817
01:08:45,829 --> 01:08:42,960
world they would have no

1818
01:08:47,630 --> 01:08:45,839
inkling not even an inkling of how to

1819
01:08:48,829 --> 01:08:47,640
make sense of this as a virtual reality

1820
01:08:51,709 --> 01:08:48,839
display

1821
01:08:53,749 --> 01:08:51,719
that was manipulating their brain in

1822
01:08:55,309 --> 01:08:53,759
such a way that because it moves with

1823
01:09:00,590 --> 01:08:55,319
you as you turn and things like that

1824
01:09:02,450 --> 01:09:00,600
that you know their belief system says

1825
01:09:04,249 --> 01:09:02,460
this must be reality this is that's just

1826
01:09:06,709 --> 01:09:04,259
what reality does I turn and things

1827
01:09:09,590 --> 01:09:06,719
change in the physical world out there

1828
01:09:11,870 --> 01:09:09,600
right well this just goes to show how

1829
01:09:14,809 --> 01:09:11,880
how much of a forest this kind of thing

1830
01:09:17,510 --> 01:09:14,819
is because we really are not much

1831
01:09:20,030 --> 01:09:17,520
further ahead than those you know

1832
01:09:21,890 --> 01:09:20,040
ancestors 100 200 300 years ago who

1833
01:09:23,390 --> 01:09:21,900
really felt like we were we had pretty

1834
01:09:26,209 --> 01:09:23,400
much figured everything out right like

1835
01:09:28,669 --> 01:09:26,219
we've talked about this before how there

1836
01:09:31,729 --> 01:09:28,679
were people you know at the in the late

1837
01:09:34,550 --> 01:09:31,739
19th century who really thought it's

1838
01:09:35,809 --> 01:09:34,560
just like dotting eyes and Crossing T's

1839
01:09:37,910 --> 01:09:35,819
at this point I mean we've pretty much

1840
01:09:40,070 --> 01:09:37,920
are the science down right and then you

1841
01:09:42,829 --> 01:09:40,080
had the quantum Revolution which ripped

1842
01:09:44,749 --> 01:09:42,839
out everything right it's like uh was

1843
01:09:46,849 --> 01:09:44,759
that famous quote

1844
01:09:50,269 --> 01:09:46,859
um you know those who haven't

1845
01:09:52,070 --> 01:09:50,279
um been profoundly impacted by the

1846
01:09:53,510 --> 01:09:52,080
revelations of quantum mechanics haven't

1847
01:09:55,850 --> 01:09:53,520
understood it it's as simple as that

1848
01:09:57,890 --> 01:09:55,860
right like if you get it you recognize

1849
01:10:01,010 --> 01:09:57,900
whoa reality is not what I thought okay

1850
01:10:03,110 --> 01:10:01,020
nothing like it right determinism is not

1851
01:10:05,390 --> 01:10:03,120
a thing right local reality is not a

1852
01:10:07,189 --> 01:10:05,400
thing right these like you talked about

1853
01:10:08,870 --> 01:10:07,199
you read that one book about these guys

1854
01:10:10,790 --> 01:10:08,880
who either became Mystics because they

1855
01:10:11,630 --> 01:10:10,800
recognized this can be what we thought

1856
01:10:13,790 --> 01:10:11,640
it was

1857
01:10:15,410 --> 01:10:13,800
or they you know become suicidal or

1858
01:10:17,990 --> 01:10:15,420
something because they're the things

1859
01:10:20,330 --> 01:10:18,000
that they were so wedded to are gone and

1860
01:10:21,649 --> 01:10:20,340
they don't know what to replace it with

1861
01:10:24,770 --> 01:10:21,659
yeah it's

1862
01:10:27,110 --> 01:10:24,780
it's kind of sad but like I it's it's as

1863
01:10:28,430 --> 01:10:27,120
if we're literally looking at our

1864
01:10:30,890 --> 01:10:28,440
universe

1865
01:10:34,189 --> 01:10:30,900
as if we were standing on the shore of

1866
01:10:36,290 --> 01:10:34,199
the ocean with a spyglass and scanning

1867
01:10:39,530 --> 01:10:36,300
The Horizon of the ocean and being like

1868
01:10:40,910 --> 01:10:39,540
well who's who's gonna show up like if

1869
01:10:42,530 --> 01:10:40,920
they're if they're if they're out there

1870
01:10:43,970 --> 01:10:42,540
they're gonna show up on a boat and

1871
01:10:46,490 --> 01:10:43,980
they're going to show up on this ocean

1872
01:10:48,830 --> 01:10:46,500
and I'll be able to see them before they

1873
01:10:50,810 --> 01:10:48,840
get here and I haven't seen any of them

1874
01:10:53,350 --> 01:10:50,820
so they're just not there right I mean

1875
01:10:56,570 --> 01:10:53,360
like that's exactly what's happening now

1876
01:11:00,290 --> 01:10:56,580
and and it you know part of the issue I

1877
01:11:02,410 --> 01:11:00,300
think that you've just revealed is that

1878
01:11:05,030 --> 01:11:02,420
the reality

1879
01:11:07,490 --> 01:11:05,040
confronts us with how profoundly wrong

1880
01:11:10,250 --> 01:11:07,500
we actually are

1881
01:11:12,229 --> 01:11:10,260
and if we really think about that

1882
01:11:14,630 --> 01:11:12,239
like that's

1883
01:11:16,430 --> 01:11:14,640
hugely destabilizing

1884
01:11:18,229 --> 01:11:16,440
right and I think that's exactly what

1885
01:11:20,990 --> 01:11:18,239
the shop filet was getting at back in

1886
01:11:22,910 --> 01:11:21,000
the 70s when he says that what the UFO

1887
01:11:25,430 --> 01:11:22,920
phenomenon fundamentally teaches us is

1888
01:11:26,870 --> 01:11:25,440
that we do not understand space time

1889
01:11:29,990 --> 01:11:26,880
now I would go further now and say

1890
01:11:32,149 --> 01:11:30,000
space-time's just not a thing but

1891
01:11:33,350 --> 01:11:32,159
even then he was saying it right and I

1892
01:11:34,850 --> 01:11:33,360
think the part of the reason why he

1893
01:11:36,110 --> 01:11:34,860
calls himself the ufologist the only

1894
01:11:38,030 --> 01:11:36,120
ufologist in the world who hasn't

1895
01:11:39,950 --> 01:11:38,040
figured out what it is he's kind of

1896
01:11:42,590 --> 01:11:39,960
being you know humorous there

1897
01:11:44,750 --> 01:11:42,600
but he's also sort of steered clear of

1898
01:11:47,450 --> 01:11:44,760
ufology and those circles because he

1899
01:11:49,130 --> 01:11:47,460
recognizes so few people are willing to

1900
01:11:51,649 --> 01:11:49,140
ask the Deep questions the big questions

1901
01:11:53,090 --> 01:11:51,659
you know what can we say about this with

1902
01:11:55,189 --> 01:11:53,100
our current understanding of reality

1903
01:11:57,950 --> 01:11:55,199
when we don't understand space-time you

1904
01:12:00,350 --> 01:11:57,960
know like how do you begin to build a

1905
01:12:03,350 --> 01:12:00,360
model when your presuppositions have

1906
01:12:04,850 --> 01:12:03,360
been shown to be faulty right and that's

1907
01:12:06,530 --> 01:12:04,860
exactly like you said that's that's what

1908
01:12:07,790 --> 01:12:06,540
this shows us is that we are just not

1909
01:12:10,729 --> 01:12:07,800
prepared

1910
01:12:13,790 --> 01:12:10,739
uh to to reckon with this with our

1911
01:12:14,689 --> 01:12:13,800
current tools and so in many ways you

1912
01:12:16,310 --> 01:12:14,699
know this is where we get really

1913
01:12:18,290 --> 01:12:16,320
post-modern and it's it's a

1914
01:12:19,550 --> 01:12:18,300
deconstructionist movement right it's

1915
01:12:21,830 --> 01:12:19,560
about saying

1916
01:12:23,689 --> 01:12:21,840
you know or or in eastern spiritual

1917
01:12:26,149 --> 01:12:23,699
Traditions they'll Define God by what he

1918
01:12:28,189 --> 01:12:26,159
or what he or it or she is not right

1919
01:12:30,350 --> 01:12:28,199
there's this kind of definition by

1920
01:12:32,630 --> 01:12:30,360
negation because the notion is

1921
01:12:34,970 --> 01:12:32,640
who are we as finite beings to say what

1922
01:12:37,790 --> 01:12:34,980
the ultimate is right how can we do that

1923
01:12:39,470 --> 01:12:37,800
that's fundamentally an absurd idea so

1924
01:12:41,390 --> 01:12:39,480
we'll say what we know it isn't we're

1925
01:12:44,090 --> 01:12:41,400
pretty sure it's not but we won't dare

1926
01:12:46,310 --> 01:12:44,100
try and say what it is and in many ways

1927
01:12:48,050 --> 01:12:46,320
that's the way we should be interacting

1928
01:12:49,910 --> 01:12:48,060
with this phenomenon we should be saying

1929
01:12:51,530 --> 01:12:49,920
at this point we should be gathering

1930
01:12:53,330 --> 01:12:51,540
data and that's that's you know again to

1931
01:12:55,250 --> 01:12:53,340
his credit that's what valet has done

1932
01:12:57,830 --> 01:12:55,260
for decades right is is

1933
01:13:00,290 --> 01:12:57,840
hold open the question don't prematurely

1934
01:13:03,110 --> 01:13:00,300
commit to Solutions because the second

1935
01:13:04,130 --> 01:13:03,120
you do like we again using Omega points

1936
01:13:06,590 --> 01:13:04,140
language

1937
01:13:09,050 --> 01:13:06,600
uh you know you what you focus on will

1938
01:13:11,750 --> 01:13:09,060
determine what you miss right so so try

1939
01:13:13,850 --> 01:13:11,760
not to focus too much have the have the

1940
01:13:16,430 --> 01:13:13,860
wide gaze right

1941
01:13:18,350 --> 01:13:16,440
um and the soft focus so that you stay

1942
01:13:19,850 --> 01:13:18,360
alert for anything that could be there

1943
01:13:22,910 --> 01:13:19,860
that's giving you some sort of clue

1944
01:13:27,350 --> 01:13:22,920
about what this uh ultimately is yeah

1945
01:13:30,350 --> 01:13:27,360
yeah shock seems to have uh taken stock

1946
01:13:33,290 --> 01:13:30,360
and and made the wise decision right not

1947
01:13:35,689 --> 01:13:33,300
wetting himself too strongly to a

1948
01:13:36,709 --> 01:13:35,699
particular notion

1949
01:13:38,750 --> 01:13:36,719
um

1950
01:13:40,610 --> 01:13:38,760
that can be frustrating for many and

1951
01:13:42,890 --> 01:13:40,620
because I think we really want some

1952
01:13:46,390 --> 01:13:42,900
solid answers here

1953
01:13:49,010 --> 01:13:46,400
um and and that you know that need

1954
01:13:50,990 --> 01:13:49,020
underlies this

1955
01:13:53,810 --> 01:13:51,000
you know energy that we see in the

1956
01:13:56,330 --> 01:13:53,820
community for the next Revelation the

1957
01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:56,340
next you know video the next

1958
01:14:02,390 --> 01:13:58,560
witness whatever it is

1959
01:14:06,050 --> 01:14:02,400
we are operating in a

1960
01:14:09,950 --> 01:14:06,060
you know in a desert of information

1961
01:14:11,390 --> 01:14:09,960
um and and we've felt drops of rain we

1962
01:14:12,530 --> 01:14:11,400
know it's we know that there's water

1963
01:14:14,810 --> 01:14:12,540
somewhere

1964
01:14:16,850 --> 01:14:14,820
but we're we're really thirsty you know

1965
01:14:18,709 --> 01:14:16,860
so please give us some more water so we

1966
01:14:22,550 --> 01:14:18,719
can kind of survive here that's kind of

1967
01:14:26,149 --> 01:14:22,560
the uh the feeling that I have is that

1968
01:14:30,290 --> 01:14:26,159
there's a desperation in many ways

1969
01:14:33,110 --> 01:14:30,300
at work and um

1970
01:14:35,209 --> 01:14:33,120
and I understand that right but but I

1971
01:14:36,950 --> 01:14:35,219
think if you sit with that feeling and

1972
01:14:37,970 --> 01:14:36,960
and you think about other times in your

1973
01:14:40,370 --> 01:14:37,980
life where you've really wanted

1974
01:14:42,290 --> 01:14:40,380
something right so you really felt like

1975
01:14:44,330 --> 01:14:42,300
you had to have this thing

1976
01:14:46,310 --> 01:14:44,340
uh when you get the thing that you feel

1977
01:14:48,530 --> 01:14:46,320
like you really really wanted uh well I

1978
01:14:49,790 --> 01:14:48,540
mean what happens next

1979
01:14:51,229 --> 01:14:49,800
there's a new thing that you really

1980
01:14:52,490 --> 01:14:51,239
really want there's a new thing that you

1981
01:14:54,530 --> 01:14:52,500
really really feel like you have to have

1982
01:14:56,630 --> 01:14:54,540
and that you need and and your energy

1983
01:14:59,750 --> 01:14:56,640
and you pointed this out many times is

1984
01:15:02,450 --> 01:14:59,760
uh is then just like just that cycle

1985
01:15:04,370 --> 01:15:02,460
occurs all over again and uh and

1986
01:15:07,910 --> 01:15:04,380
ultimately you're never satisfied

1987
01:15:10,430 --> 01:15:07,920
because at the core you're not fixated

1988
01:15:11,930 --> 01:15:10,440
on the right thing you're you're what

1989
01:15:12,890 --> 01:15:11,940
you want is something you're never going

1990
01:15:15,169 --> 01:15:12,900
to have

1991
01:15:17,630 --> 01:15:15,179
you know so so kind of learning to get

1992
01:15:19,910 --> 01:15:17,640
rid of that desire is uh

1993
01:15:22,970 --> 01:15:19,920
you know what would actually be your

1994
01:15:26,810 --> 01:15:25,130
yeah and I think too I I would also

1995
01:15:29,030 --> 01:15:26,820
point out that

1996
01:15:30,229 --> 01:15:29,040
just so I don't confuse people because I

1997
01:15:32,270 --> 01:15:30,239
think in

1998
01:15:33,830 --> 01:15:32,280
based on more recent episodes both on

1999
01:15:35,149 --> 01:15:33,840
this show and on point of convergence

2000
01:15:37,370 --> 01:15:35,159
they might be

2001
01:15:38,510 --> 01:15:37,380
wondering if I'm now saying uh you know

2002
01:15:40,430 --> 01:15:38,520
my hands are in the air and I have no

2003
01:15:43,729 --> 01:15:40,440
idea what this is so I feel like I do

2004
01:15:46,970 --> 01:15:43,739
have a strong sense of of the sort of

2005
01:15:48,890 --> 01:15:46,980
metaphysical architecture if you will

2006
01:15:50,930 --> 01:15:48,900
um but as you can see as I try to roll

2007
01:15:53,990 --> 01:15:50,940
it out as I try to describe it it's it's

2008
01:15:55,729 --> 01:15:54,000
very very complex and it rips out almost

2009
01:15:57,950 --> 01:15:55,739
every

2010
01:16:00,590 --> 01:15:57,960
um you know foundational layer we have

2011
01:16:04,130 --> 01:16:00,600
everything we use to prop up the floor

2012
01:16:06,709 --> 01:16:04,140
of our existence gets pulled out and it

2013
01:16:09,350 --> 01:16:06,719
it ends up offending or confounding

2014
01:16:13,010 --> 01:16:09,360
almost every different uh kind of

2015
01:16:15,470 --> 01:16:13,020
thinking group or belief group or system

2016
01:16:20,390 --> 01:16:17,270
and I'm truly not the only one like I

2017
01:16:22,430 --> 01:16:20,400
think again uh even even Bernardo Castro

2018
01:16:25,250 --> 01:16:22,440
you know who's put forward analytic

2019
01:16:26,390 --> 01:16:25,260
idealism with the Essentia Foundation he

2020
01:16:28,850 --> 01:16:26,400
wrote a book called meaning and

2021
01:16:32,990 --> 01:16:28,860
absurdity and I talked a bit about that

2022
01:16:35,270 --> 01:16:33,000
in my presentation in New York and his

2023
01:16:38,090 --> 01:16:35,280
point is that

2024
01:16:40,790 --> 01:16:38,100
what we think of as reality quote

2025
01:16:42,950 --> 01:16:40,800
unquote is not nearly as fixed as we

2026
01:16:44,810 --> 01:16:42,960
think it is and depending on the

2027
01:16:46,310 --> 01:16:44,820
consciousness of different groups of

2028
01:16:48,350 --> 01:16:46,320
people so that you get in certain parts

2029
01:16:49,550 --> 01:16:48,360
of the world

2030
01:16:52,970 --> 01:16:49,560
you'll get a slightly different

2031
01:16:55,430 --> 01:16:52,980
rendering of reality because either it's

2032
01:16:57,110 --> 01:16:55,440
that group of people that impacts the

2033
01:16:58,729 --> 01:16:57,120
field of meditation around them right

2034
01:17:00,950 --> 01:16:58,739
you have this um

2035
01:17:03,290 --> 01:17:00,960
you have this boundary where he would

2036
01:17:05,149 --> 01:17:03,300
say you have an impinge impingement on

2037
01:17:06,709 --> 01:17:05,159
that boundary right by Consciousness it

2038
01:17:08,630 --> 01:17:06,719
begins to change

2039
01:17:10,550 --> 01:17:08,640
this structure of reality around it

2040
01:17:12,950 --> 01:17:10,560
because again those are not two things

2041
01:17:15,470 --> 01:17:12,960
that's when people go oh man that sounds

2042
01:17:17,149 --> 01:17:15,480
so new age man that you're saying my

2043
01:17:19,910 --> 01:17:17,159
Consciousness changes physical reality

2044
01:17:23,149 --> 01:17:19,920
I'm saying no what's more true is that

2045
01:17:25,729 --> 01:17:23,159
those are not two things right and so

2046
01:17:27,350 --> 01:17:25,739
there's just this field of interference

2047
01:17:29,450 --> 01:17:27,360
going on all the time between these

2048
01:17:31,729 --> 01:17:29,460
different agents that are part of which

2049
01:17:34,610 --> 01:17:31,739
again are ultimately the same thing but

2050
01:17:36,770 --> 01:17:34,620
they're temporarily excitations of

2051
01:17:39,830 --> 01:17:36,780
Consciousness taking on temporary form

2052
01:17:42,950 --> 01:17:39,840
and the same way that if you uh you know

2053
01:17:44,330 --> 01:17:42,960
you have two waves that cross you get

2054
01:17:47,030 --> 01:17:44,340
what's called an interference pattern

2055
01:17:48,290 --> 01:17:47,040
right and again we get this with a

2056
01:17:50,390 --> 01:17:48,300
double slit experiment this famous

2057
01:17:52,250 --> 01:17:50,400
Notions and and observations that were

2058
01:17:54,050 --> 01:17:52,260
made in quantum mechanics but I'm saying

2059
01:17:58,070 --> 01:17:54,060
reality is like that all the way up in a

2060
01:18:00,410 --> 01:17:58,080
way down microscopic macroscopic and so

2061
01:18:02,510 --> 01:18:00,420
his point Bernardo cavstrip was that

2062
01:18:04,010 --> 01:18:02,520
really

2063
01:18:05,270 --> 01:18:04,020
and I've heard Whitley struber say

2064
01:18:07,370 --> 01:18:05,280
similar things based just on his

2065
01:18:09,290 --> 01:18:07,380
experience that if you hear stories that

2066
01:18:11,990 --> 01:18:09,300
are too straight laced like too much

2067
01:18:14,149 --> 01:18:12,000
like an ET craft came down from Saturn

2068
01:18:15,950 --> 01:18:14,159
they came in they gave me some great

2069
01:18:18,530 --> 01:18:15,960
like geo-coordinate information about

2070
01:18:21,229 --> 01:18:18,540
like the rings of Saturn and we talked

2071
01:18:22,790 --> 01:18:21,239
about you know the the meteor belt and

2072
01:18:24,470 --> 01:18:22,800
what's going on there that he took off

2073
01:18:25,910 --> 01:18:24,480
and went back right because they've got

2074
01:18:27,590 --> 01:18:25,920
a scientific Expedition that sounds all

2075
01:18:30,590 --> 01:18:27,600
very nice and clean cut and science

2076
01:18:33,890 --> 01:18:30,600
fiction right and what we usually get is

2077
01:18:35,810 --> 01:18:33,900
these bizarre situations where

2078
01:18:37,790 --> 01:18:35,820
you know like we talked about you know

2079
01:18:40,070 --> 01:18:37,800
Jim Joe simmington with the the Italians

2080
01:18:41,630 --> 01:18:40,080
Landing right and giving giving him

2081
01:18:42,950 --> 01:18:41,640
pancakes right those kind of things

2082
01:18:46,189 --> 01:18:42,960
where

2083
01:18:48,530 --> 01:18:46,199
it it confounds us and we say that can't

2084
01:18:50,330 --> 01:18:48,540
be real because that's just too weird it

2085
01:18:51,530 --> 01:18:50,340
and it's weird in a way that doesn't

2086
01:18:55,930 --> 01:18:51,540
even

2087
01:18:58,370 --> 01:18:55,940
it's just annoyingly weird right

2088
01:19:00,290 --> 01:18:58,380
and yet these are the stories and so

2089
01:19:01,610 --> 01:19:00,300
bernardo's point is that he's more

2090
01:19:04,729 --> 01:19:01,620
likely to believe a story like Joe

2091
01:19:07,130 --> 01:19:04,739
Simmons than Bill Smith who says you

2092
01:19:09,110 --> 01:19:07,140
know this the Saturn people landed and

2093
01:19:11,689 --> 01:19:09,120
gave me some information about quantum

2094
01:19:13,370 --> 01:19:11,699
mechanics so I could build a a particle

2095
01:19:14,510 --> 01:19:13,380
accelerator that's better than CERN or

2096
01:19:16,250 --> 01:19:14,520
something like that that's that's what

2097
01:19:18,770 --> 01:19:16,260
our physicalist model wants to hear

2098
01:19:19,790 --> 01:19:18,780
that's why the journalists are saying I

2099
01:19:21,410 --> 01:19:19,800
don't think it's happening because we're

2100
01:19:23,330 --> 01:19:21,420
not seeing these beings bringing this

2101
01:19:26,390 --> 01:19:23,340
kind of information what we're getting

2102
01:19:28,669 --> 01:19:26,400
is like these these uh neo-humans that

2103
01:19:30,830 --> 01:19:28,679
look like Italians bringing pancakes

2104
01:19:33,229 --> 01:19:30,840
right things like things like that

2105
01:19:34,910 --> 01:19:33,239
um or Cryptids or like we've talked

2106
01:19:36,830 --> 01:19:34,920
before like a seven foot eight foot tall

2107
01:19:40,130 --> 01:19:36,840
wolf being leaning against the Pole

2108
01:19:43,610 --> 01:19:40,140
right or he's uh you know Dino beavers

2109
01:19:45,410 --> 01:19:43,620
and and skinwalkers of the Pentagon I'm

2110
01:19:46,550 --> 01:19:45,420
kind of laughing here not because I

2111
01:19:49,189 --> 01:19:46,560
don't think those things are true but

2112
01:19:52,189 --> 01:19:49,199
because they are true and I know that

2113
01:19:55,610 --> 01:19:52,199
how that lands in our current milieu

2114
01:19:58,570 --> 01:19:55,620
just one one doesn't fit the other and

2115
01:20:01,430 --> 01:19:58,580
so that just pushes back the disclosure

2116
01:20:02,630 --> 01:20:01,440
piece not because in that case not

2117
01:20:04,910 --> 01:20:02,640
because government's not bringing

2118
01:20:07,130 --> 01:20:04,920
forward but people are like that's the

2119
01:20:09,470 --> 01:20:07,140
kind of disclosure I do not want right

2120
01:20:11,630 --> 01:20:09,480
sure number one is 2D stabilizing but

2121
01:20:13,490 --> 01:20:11,640
before I even get to destabilizing it's

2122
01:20:15,590 --> 01:20:13,500
just too unbelievable and therefore I

2123
01:20:17,510 --> 01:20:15,600
just I won't go there yeah I mean it's

2124
01:20:19,130 --> 01:20:17,520
incredibly frustrating and I can I can

2125
01:20:23,110 --> 01:20:19,140
just hear the complaints already you

2126
01:20:25,070 --> 01:20:23,120
know because our our models of empirical

2127
01:20:26,450 --> 01:20:25,080
observation like they're just they're

2128
01:20:29,110 --> 01:20:26,460
not even added they're not adequately

2129
01:20:31,430 --> 01:20:29,120
prepared to to understand this

2130
01:20:34,310 --> 01:20:31,440
you know that we don't have the right

2131
01:20:37,070 --> 01:20:34,320
tools and so I mean you can we just

2132
01:20:39,709 --> 01:20:37,080
throw our hands up well I mean how do I

2133
01:20:41,810 --> 01:20:39,719
how do I know what what is true at all I

2134
01:20:45,290 --> 01:20:41,820
I kind of I get the right tools to make

2135
01:20:46,910 --> 01:20:45,300
the evaluation I think that is uh where

2136
01:20:50,030 --> 01:20:46,920
many are and you know I am there too

2137
01:20:53,090 --> 01:20:50,040
sometimes I mean we um

2138
01:20:55,550 --> 01:20:53,100
when the best tool in our toolkit is a

2139
01:20:58,070 --> 01:20:55,560
metaphysical model that makes the the

2140
01:20:59,870 --> 01:20:58,080
most sense of it right like that that

2141
01:21:02,390 --> 01:20:59,880
we're already in territory that we're

2142
01:21:05,930 --> 01:21:02,400
uncomfortable in because

2143
01:21:07,610 --> 01:21:05,940
our tools look like a hammer and look

2144
01:21:10,250 --> 01:21:07,620
like a screwdriver it looked like a

2145
01:21:12,530 --> 01:21:10,260
microscope you know so you can see how

2146
01:21:15,890 --> 01:21:12,540
we're really in a tough bind in a way

2147
01:21:18,530 --> 01:21:15,900
and you know I'm interested in however

2148
01:21:21,709 --> 01:21:18,540
this unfolds like I would like to see

2149
01:21:24,410 --> 01:21:21,719
our civilization be affected and

2150
01:21:26,510 --> 01:21:24,420
impacted and changed for the better and

2151
01:21:28,149 --> 01:21:26,520
I would like to see that happen in in

2152
01:21:34,370 --> 01:21:28,159
the most

2153
01:21:36,950 --> 01:21:34,380
way right so right I think that we we

2154
01:21:39,530 --> 01:21:36,960
have a vested interest in this being a

2155
01:21:42,110 --> 01:21:39,540
positive change in transformation for

2156
01:21:44,510 --> 01:21:42,120
the world not something that you know is

2157
01:21:46,310 --> 01:21:44,520
going to be catastrophic and you know

2158
01:21:47,870 --> 01:21:46,320
runs on the grocery store at the gas

2159
01:21:50,390 --> 01:21:47,880
pump like this this could be very very

2160
01:21:52,430 --> 01:21:50,400
bad and and with that being said we

2161
01:21:56,030 --> 01:21:52,440
we've talked about it many times I mean

2162
01:21:59,330 --> 01:21:56,040
if that if that if that is a likely

2163
01:22:01,790 --> 01:21:59,340
result of some of these Revelations if

2164
01:22:03,590 --> 01:22:01,800
you're behind the desk you know at the

2165
01:22:06,110 --> 01:22:03,600
Pentagon or whatever whoever these

2166
01:22:08,330 --> 01:22:06,120
decision makers are you're looking at

2167
01:22:12,050 --> 01:22:08,340
that and going yeah this that we don't

2168
01:22:14,030 --> 01:22:12,060
have we don't have the tools yet right

2169
01:22:16,490 --> 01:22:14,040
you're looking at the landscape and

2170
01:22:19,610 --> 01:22:16,500
saying the tools don't exist and if

2171
01:22:22,610 --> 01:22:19,620
without them we are at the mercy of our

2172
01:22:24,530 --> 01:22:22,620
base desires our base behaviors so the

2173
01:22:26,870 --> 01:22:24,540
responsible thing is to wait until the

2174
01:22:29,330 --> 01:22:26,880
tools are there and then we can have

2175
01:22:31,510 --> 01:22:29,340
this conversation

2176
01:22:34,189 --> 01:22:31,520
yeah there's there's so many

2177
01:22:36,050 --> 01:22:34,199
caveats here there's so many factors

2178
01:22:37,490 --> 01:22:36,060
that have held back disclosure but

2179
01:22:39,050 --> 01:22:37,500
that's we're back to that kicking the

2180
01:22:41,630 --> 01:22:39,060
can down the road again

2181
01:22:43,610 --> 01:22:41,640
um and that's a big part of it you know

2182
01:22:45,830 --> 01:22:43,620
it's not just that

2183
01:22:47,630 --> 01:22:45,840
we're not sure how the public will

2184
01:22:48,830 --> 01:22:47,640
handle this when we disclose it but we

2185
01:22:51,709 --> 01:22:48,840
don't even know how to describe what it

2186
01:22:53,570 --> 01:22:51,719
is that we're disclosing right and uh

2187
01:22:55,610 --> 01:22:53,580
anybody who has any kind of background

2188
01:22:58,370 --> 01:22:55,620
in public relations or marketing knows

2189
01:22:59,689 --> 01:22:58,380
that what you don't want to do is hold a

2190
01:23:01,669 --> 01:22:59,699
conference when you don't even know what

2191
01:23:02,810 --> 01:23:01,679
you're saying and and you know from the

2192
01:23:04,610 --> 01:23:02,820
get-go that it's going to sound

2193
01:23:07,310 --> 01:23:04,620
completely incomprehensible and which

2194
01:23:08,270 --> 01:23:07,320
will be interpreted as you being

2195
01:23:11,810 --> 01:23:08,280
um

2196
01:23:14,450 --> 01:23:11,820
you know just a poor Communicator or

2197
01:23:16,970 --> 01:23:14,460
just not good at your job not serving or

2198
01:23:18,890 --> 01:23:16,980
role well right so it's not going to be

2199
01:23:21,709 --> 01:23:18,900
where we don't we don't have the kind of

2200
01:23:24,709 --> 01:23:21,719
culture that has space for oh this

2201
01:23:26,450 --> 01:23:24,719
person's completely competent it's yet

2202
01:23:27,530 --> 01:23:26,460
it's just that they're delivering

2203
01:23:29,270 --> 01:23:27,540
information it's completely

2204
01:23:31,130 --> 01:23:29,280
destabilizing and we don't have that

2205
01:23:32,450 --> 01:23:31,140
category right

2206
01:23:34,610 --> 01:23:32,460
um I was also thinking about when you

2207
01:23:36,110 --> 01:23:34,620
said you know positively destabilizing

2208
01:23:39,229 --> 01:23:36,120
and it encouraged me another word for

2209
01:23:41,270 --> 01:23:39,239
that might be creative okay right like

2210
01:23:43,130 --> 01:23:41,280
um that's I think what we're hoping here

2211
01:23:44,990 --> 01:23:43,140
right that's that's the long-term goal

2212
01:23:48,770 --> 01:23:45,000
that

2213
01:23:52,370 --> 01:23:48,780
um this would be so destabilizing so

2214
01:23:58,010 --> 01:23:55,970
so change oriented to such a degree down

2215
01:24:01,490 --> 01:23:58,020
to a foundational level that you would

2216
01:24:03,890 --> 01:24:01,500
have no choice but to conceive of a

2217
01:24:05,750 --> 01:24:03,900
different model because I do think deep

2218
01:24:06,950 --> 01:24:05,760
down when people really are it takes a

2219
01:24:08,450 --> 01:24:06,960
while to get there we have all sorts of

2220
01:24:10,010 --> 01:24:08,460
biases that prevent us from getting

2221
01:24:13,370 --> 01:24:10,020
there but when we finally get to that

2222
01:24:15,050 --> 01:24:13,380
place where we go okay I I can't deny it

2223
01:24:17,570 --> 01:24:15,060
anymore this is actually what the

2224
01:24:18,890 --> 01:24:17,580
reality seems to be right it's pointing

2225
01:24:21,470 --> 01:24:18,900
in this direction there's just too much

2226
01:24:23,689 --> 01:24:21,480
evidence then people will have that

2227
01:24:25,790 --> 01:24:23,699
shift like you talked about your shift

2228
01:24:27,830 --> 01:24:25,800
from being kind of this more

2229
01:24:29,930 --> 01:24:27,840
conservative religious believer to going

2230
01:24:31,970 --> 01:24:29,940
to college to learn to specialize in it

2231
01:24:35,209 --> 01:24:31,980
and coming away going actually I'm not

2232
01:24:36,950 --> 01:24:35,219
sure the whole thing holds up uh so you

2233
01:24:38,030 --> 01:24:36,960
but you changed right you didn't say so

2234
01:24:39,890 --> 01:24:38,040
therefore I'm going to spend the next

2235
01:24:41,750 --> 01:24:39,900
few decades just believing a lie and

2236
01:24:45,290 --> 01:24:41,760
hope that nobody or living a lie and

2237
01:24:47,870 --> 01:24:45,300
hope that nobody notices no you say as a

2238
01:24:49,310 --> 01:24:47,880
person of coherence who doesn't want who

2239
01:24:50,750 --> 01:24:49,320
wants to be able to go to you know sleep

2240
01:24:53,209 --> 01:24:50,760
at night without feeling like you're a

2241
01:24:55,910 --> 01:24:53,219
fraud I'm going to change my perspective

2242
01:24:58,490 --> 01:24:55,920
so I think we can get there and one

2243
01:25:00,830 --> 01:24:58,500
hopes that when we get there on mass

2244
01:25:03,770 --> 01:25:00,840
that creates the kind of impetus for

2245
01:25:05,689 --> 01:25:03,780
this creativity to really rethink

2246
01:25:06,950 --> 01:25:05,699
how would we as a society live

2247
01:25:08,410 --> 01:25:06,960
differently not just because there's

2248
01:25:10,070 --> 01:25:08,420
aliens in our midst that are

2249
01:25:12,229 --> 01:25:10,080
interdimensional in the way that I

2250
01:25:15,229 --> 01:25:12,239
described intermentational if you will

2251
01:25:16,910 --> 01:25:15,239
but also that life and death is not a

2252
01:25:18,649 --> 01:25:16,920
solid line like we think it's more like

2253
01:25:20,570 --> 01:25:18,659
a phase shift how would you live

2254
01:25:21,590 --> 01:25:20,580
differently if you know that at the end

2255
01:25:23,090 --> 01:25:21,600
of your life you're just going to phase

2256
01:25:26,209 --> 01:25:23,100
shift into a different kind of existence

2257
01:25:29,450 --> 01:25:26,219
and that goes on and on I think it might

2258
01:25:31,010 --> 01:25:29,460
change a lot right and I think um we

2259
01:25:32,810 --> 01:25:31,020
would move more towards you know

2260
01:25:34,790 --> 01:25:32,820
non-duality because we would recognize

2261
01:25:37,669 --> 01:25:34,800
that we don't have to have some God

2262
01:25:39,530 --> 01:25:37,679
who's punishing us and the you know

2263
01:25:40,910 --> 01:25:39,540
Eternal fire is what's necessary to get

2264
01:25:43,010 --> 01:25:40,920
people to do good things in this

2265
01:25:45,350 --> 01:25:43,020
lifetime out of guilt or whatever or

2266
01:25:47,510 --> 01:25:45,360
wanting to avoid punishment but you

2267
01:25:49,250 --> 01:25:47,520
recognize that listen you're we're in

2268
01:25:51,470 --> 01:25:49,260
this for the long game we're evolving

2269
01:25:53,149 --> 01:25:51,480
we're changing as part of the system and

2270
01:25:55,729 --> 01:25:53,159
as individual manifestations that

2271
01:25:58,070 --> 01:25:55,739
excitation of Consciousness so if that's

2272
01:25:59,270 --> 01:25:58,080
the case I might as well do what's good

2273
01:26:00,470 --> 01:25:59,280
for the whole because that's what's

2274
01:26:03,110 --> 01:26:00,480
ultimately good for me too because

2275
01:26:05,689 --> 01:26:03,120
that's what I am that's fundamentally

2276
01:26:07,729 --> 01:26:05,699
what I am and I I now know it not just

2277
01:26:09,830 --> 01:26:07,739
in a conceptual way but I I Feel It In

2278
01:26:12,110 --> 01:26:09,840
My Bones and I've seen so much evidence

2279
01:26:14,570 --> 01:26:12,120
that I can't help but shift my

2280
01:26:16,790 --> 01:26:14,580
perspective like you did so one hopes

2281
01:26:19,129 --> 01:26:16,800
that's where we get to but uh but it's

2282
01:26:21,110 --> 01:26:19,139
gonna take some time because that's you

2283
01:26:22,629 --> 01:26:21,120
know that's about as uh change oriented

2284
01:26:25,850 --> 01:26:22,639
as you can possibly imagine

2285
01:26:28,370 --> 01:26:25,860
well the the encouraging thing is that

2286
01:26:31,510 --> 01:26:28,380
the seeds are there uh that the

2287
01:26:35,810 --> 01:26:31,520
possibility space is already real

2288
01:26:39,290 --> 01:26:35,820
that and that that exerts a force almost

2289
01:26:41,030 --> 01:26:39,300
a teleological force on our on our

2290
01:26:43,430 --> 01:26:41,040
future

2291
01:26:46,790 --> 01:26:43,440
um that there are things in motion right

2292
01:26:50,030 --> 01:26:46,800
now that are putting us on that

2293
01:26:53,689 --> 01:26:50,040
trajectory of change and development so

2294
01:26:56,870 --> 01:26:53,699
that is the The Optimist you know in me

2295
01:27:01,729 --> 01:26:56,880
saying you know do not be afraid you

2296
01:27:04,310 --> 01:27:01,739
know do not be anxious because uh the

2297
01:27:06,770 --> 01:27:04,320
the possibility for positive development

2298
01:27:09,410 --> 01:27:06,780
for Creative development and change like

2299
01:27:11,750 --> 01:27:09,420
it is already there in

2300
01:27:13,850 --> 01:27:11,760
in the possibility space like it exists

2301
01:27:15,770 --> 01:27:13,860
and just read

2302
01:27:16,850 --> 01:27:15,780
um that that's not to say that there

2303
01:27:20,629 --> 01:27:16,860
won't be

2304
01:27:22,430 --> 01:27:20,639
some moments of turmoil and pain and and

2305
01:27:25,129 --> 01:27:22,440
uh

2306
01:27:26,689 --> 01:27:25,139
and growth right

2307
01:27:29,330 --> 01:27:26,699
um we don't want to I don't think we

2308
01:27:33,050 --> 01:27:29,340
want to be in a world that is absent of

2309
01:27:36,290 --> 01:27:33,060
some level of discomfort

2310
01:27:39,290 --> 01:27:36,300
um so you know take take courage in that

2311
01:27:41,870 --> 01:27:39,300
that it it may not unfold the way that

2312
01:27:45,950 --> 01:27:41,880
you would want it to but

2313
01:27:46,910 --> 01:27:45,960
there is within this entire process of

2314
01:27:55,790 --> 01:27:46,920
being

2315
01:27:58,729 --> 01:27:55,800
world the sort of Arrow of of

2316
01:28:02,629 --> 01:27:58,739
progression of development of growth uh

2317
01:28:04,550 --> 01:28:02,639
uh for ultim the ultimate goal of

2318
01:28:06,050 --> 01:28:04,560
enrichment of enrichment of the entire

2319
01:28:08,570 --> 01:28:06,060
system

2320
01:28:10,910 --> 01:28:08,580
um of all that there is

2321
01:28:13,430 --> 01:28:10,920
yeah I would say hopefully people will

2322
01:28:15,490 --> 01:28:13,440
come away from this conversation with

2323
01:28:18,709 --> 01:28:15,500
some new ideas around

2324
01:28:20,990 --> 01:28:18,719
why if some of these are benevolent as I

2325
01:28:23,209 --> 01:28:21,000
would say they are why are they hanging

2326
01:28:25,490 --> 01:28:23,219
back right why are they not swooping in

2327
01:28:29,149 --> 01:28:25,500
to solve our climate process now your

2328
01:28:32,270 --> 01:28:29,159
climate challenges and our you know

2329
01:28:34,310 --> 01:28:32,280
inequal distribution challenges and all

2330
01:28:35,510 --> 01:28:34,320
that kind of thing and the reason is

2331
01:28:36,709 --> 01:28:35,520
because like we've talked about before

2332
01:28:39,290 --> 01:28:36,719
because

2333
01:28:41,689 --> 01:28:39,300
us growing into

2334
01:28:44,270 --> 01:28:41,699
deeper levels of awareness that make us

2335
01:28:46,370 --> 01:28:44,280
change our Behavior because it just

2336
01:28:48,129 --> 01:28:46,380
becomes self-evident is more important

2337
01:28:50,030 --> 01:28:48,139
right we're we're looking for

2338
01:28:52,430 --> 01:28:50,040
self-evident Revelation so they're

2339
01:28:55,430 --> 01:28:52,440
giving all sorts of prompts to get us

2340
01:28:57,470 --> 01:28:55,440
there right I I made that one tweet one

2341
01:28:59,870 --> 01:28:57,480
of my new cosmology tweets was about

2342
01:29:01,910 --> 01:28:59,880
that that sometimes these sightings are

2343
01:29:03,229 --> 01:29:01,920
meant to be prompts to like wake you up

2344
01:29:05,390 --> 01:29:03,239
to something that some part of you

2345
01:29:07,490 --> 01:29:05,400
already knows right yeah

2346
01:29:09,770 --> 01:29:07,500
um and

2347
01:29:12,110 --> 01:29:09,780
we we should be encouraged by that but

2348
01:29:15,830 --> 01:29:12,120
also at the same time recognize how much

2349
01:29:17,930 --> 01:29:15,840
is on the table how how much change is

2350
01:29:20,209 --> 01:29:17,940
exists here at least in potentia right

2351
01:29:23,870 --> 01:29:20,219
like I completely change it changed way

2352
01:29:25,910 --> 01:29:23,880
of imagining living as individuals and

2353
01:29:27,770 --> 01:29:25,920
as a collective right when all these

2354
01:29:29,930 --> 01:29:27,780
things are on are in play in terms of

2355
01:29:32,209 --> 01:29:29,940
life and death not seeming like a solid

2356
01:29:34,250 --> 01:29:32,219
boundary anymore and even things like

2357
01:29:37,250 --> 01:29:34,260
individual consciousness

2358
01:29:39,649 --> 01:29:37,260
being seen as much more malleable and

2359
01:29:42,530 --> 01:29:39,659
temporary amongst a series right that

2360
01:29:44,390 --> 01:29:42,540
maybe even go beyond and I say coyly

2361
01:29:47,450 --> 01:29:44,400
maybe I think it does right it goes

2362
01:29:50,390 --> 01:29:47,460
beyond just human incarnations so

2363
01:29:52,430 --> 01:29:50,400
in that mind you know uh I would say

2364
01:29:53,810 --> 01:29:52,440
that we should take heart that this is

2365
01:29:55,850 --> 01:29:53,820
exactly what the benevolent ones are

2366
01:29:57,169 --> 01:29:55,860
doing and as we talked about last time I

2367
01:29:59,570 --> 01:29:57,179
think that what we're seeing evidence of

2368
01:30:01,669 --> 01:29:59,580
is a Grassroots movement where

2369
01:30:03,410 --> 01:30:01,679
individual by individual they're letting

2370
01:30:06,830 --> 01:30:03,420
that flame you know setting that spark

2371
01:30:08,570 --> 01:30:06,840
to to hopefully help that person arrive

2372
01:30:11,030 --> 01:30:08,580
at new self-evident truths for

2373
01:30:13,610 --> 01:30:11,040
themselves and then they begin to make

2374
01:30:16,010 --> 01:30:13,620
the changes that you made when you had a

2375
01:30:18,110 --> 01:30:16,020
an Awakening right and then when that

2376
01:30:19,910 --> 01:30:18,120
happens on a broad enough basis then

2377
01:30:22,669 --> 01:30:19,920
slowly but surely the entire Collective

2378
01:30:24,770 --> 01:30:22,679
changes as well

2379
01:30:28,790 --> 01:30:24,780
I think that's a great place to end it

2380
01:30:31,729 --> 01:30:28,800
and as uh we approach the end of 2023

2381
01:30:34,490 --> 01:30:31,739
uh May that change take place

2382
01:30:36,350 --> 01:30:34,500
um where you find yourself and with

2383
01:30:37,790 --> 01:30:36,360
those that you interact with and care

2384
01:30:39,350 --> 01:30:37,800
about

2385
01:30:41,750 --> 01:30:39,360
um we want to thank

2386
01:30:44,990 --> 01:30:41,760
our liminal frames listeners and

2387
01:30:47,390 --> 01:30:45,000
supporters uh every comment every tweet

2388
01:30:48,370 --> 01:30:47,400
every retweet it means a great deal to

2389
01:30:51,590 --> 01:30:48,380
us

2390
01:30:54,290 --> 01:30:51,600
I can't tell you how

2391
01:30:56,810 --> 01:30:54,300
fulfilling that is to read those

2392
01:30:59,450 --> 01:30:56,820
comments of support and um it's it's

2393
01:31:00,770 --> 01:30:59,460
Mimi's a great deal so thank you so much

2394
01:31:02,450 --> 01:31:00,780
for that and we look forward to

2395
01:31:04,970 --> 01:31:02,460
continuing this journey with all of you

2396
01:31:06,350 --> 01:31:04,980
uh in the new year

2397
01:31:09,229 --> 01:31:06,360
um

2398
01:31:11,030 --> 01:31:09,239
I think it's going to be a good one

2399
01:31:13,370 --> 01:31:11,040
so may the quality of our questions

2400
01:31:16,610 --> 01:31:13,380
shaped by a desire for understanding

2401
01:31:18,649 --> 01:31:16,620
enhance our journey of Discovery and may

2402
01:31:20,810 --> 01:31:18,659
our travels broaden the sphere of our

2403
01:31:25,370 --> 01:31:20,820
Consciousness reminding us that new

2404
01:31:28,310 --> 01:31:25,380
discoveries beget New Horizons as always

2405
01:31:34,610 --> 01:31:28,320
Adventure awaits

2406
01:31:36,750 --> 01:31:36,050
thank you

2407
01:31:38,420 --> 01:31:36,760
foreign

2408
01:31:44,700 --> 01:31:38,430
[Laughter]